Pensions Alert
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Mostly here, but often there
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have yet to hear it officially, but am led to believe that promotion will not affect one's original rights. This is from a contact who attended the AFBLT shindig at Cottesmore. I seem to recall that they are visiting a secret Oxon airbase soon; hopefully that'll be on the agenda.
If they do make you change TOS, where will the new flt cdrs come from? Four more years in, probably staying flying, then a flt lt's pension at 38, or: 4 more years in, the extra work load, probable OOA detachment, ground tour to finish and no pension at the end........hmmmm, I wonder. Maybe the extra fiver a day'll make up for it.
If they do make you change TOS, where will the new flt cdrs come from? Four more years in, probably staying flying, then a flt lt's pension at 38, or: 4 more years in, the extra work load, probable OOA detachment, ground tour to finish and no pension at the end........hmmmm, I wonder. Maybe the extra fiver a day'll make up for it.
Difference in Pension?
See here for the relative rates at the moment:
Armed Forces Pension Rates 2003
Of course, what we can't see is what the comparable rates would be under the new scheme. Neither do we know what the overall difference would be in total benefit.
If the current benefit is, for the sake of argument, £10K PA, payable at the 16/38 point for life, and the law changes so that you don't get anything until age 65, then for someone leaving at 40, the difference would be £250K, and that is not taking into account the index-linked rise that would kick in at 55. Assuming a 3% Index, kicking in at 55, the difference increases to £350K !!!!!!
This also assumes that I understand what the Green Paper changes would mean if applied to the military - A MAJOR ASSUMPTION!!
Armed Forces Pension Rates 2003
Of course, what we can't see is what the comparable rates would be under the new scheme. Neither do we know what the overall difference would be in total benefit.
If the current benefit is, for the sake of argument, £10K PA, payable at the 16/38 point for life, and the law changes so that you don't get anything until age 65, then for someone leaving at 40, the difference would be £250K, and that is not taking into account the index-linked rise that would kick in at 55. Assuming a 3% Index, kicking in at 55, the difference increases to £350K !!!!!!
This also assumes that I understand what the Green Paper changes would mean if applied to the military - A MAJOR ASSUMPTION!!
Similarly, the decision not to permit those with less than 5 years remaining to their NRD to transfer to PA spine plus the absence of anything to compensate them for this decision in this year's AFPRB recommendation was a major influence in my pulling the black and yellow.
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 733
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only GUARANTEED way to ensure that your pension and gratuity remains safe is to leave now!!
I have seen the weasel words from PMA that say don't worry!! You will be alright!! Assurances have been given yaddey yaddey!!
Yeah Right!!
And they never tell lies do they!!!
I have seen the weasel words from PMA that say don't worry!! You will be alright!! Assurances have been given yaddey yaddey!!
Yeah Right!!
And they never tell lies do they!!!
I was chatting about this when doing time at Binnsworth after PVR'ing and mentioned the Green Paper content to a scribbly chum, asking his views. A DeskO happened to come into the office at the time...."Bolleaux", he said "..don't trust the bug.gers an inch. Wish I was punching out like you!"
Hmmm.........
Hmmm.........
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Nomadic
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is simply annoying that such a large organisation does not have the respect of the motivated individuals who have [and still do] served in her!!
....does this forum still get vetted weekly by the MoD in an effort to get the cold face opinion?? - or are we all complaining up the wrong tree?
Simply stated, if there is this much mis-information or wrong [and un educated guess work] rumour about, you would recon that a PROFESSIONAL man management agency would sort it out and correct & / or educate EVERYONE as to the FACTS. So as to leave the inuendo to rest.
We have more to worry about than our futues, albeit our futre is vitally important, and should be crystal clear to all and to those who advise and manage same.
....does this forum still get vetted weekly by the MoD in an effort to get the cold face opinion?? - or are we all complaining up the wrong tree?
Simply stated, if there is this much mis-information or wrong [and un educated guess work] rumour about, you would recon that a PROFESSIONAL man management agency would sort it out and correct & / or educate EVERYONE as to the FACTS. So as to leave the inuendo to rest.
We have more to worry about than our futues, albeit our futre is vitally important, and should be crystal clear to all and to those who advise and manage same.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LJR has a point.
PPrune is looked at by the Corporate Comms team rather than the Service Personnel policy hoods (tri-Service staff). But the point is there is plenty of information on the proposed pension changes out there but many would rather listen to rumour and conjecture rather than read the documents.
Fundamentally pension law ensures that when the scheme changes then reserved rights to remain on the old scheme must be put in place. Individuals have to compare and contrast the benefits of each.
Given the state of the nations finances, and MODs in particular, I would be pleasantly surprised - ne gobsmacked - if the new scheme was more generous to me than the old one but I await the figures with interest.
One final point - don't confuse Serving in the RAF with being employed by the RAF. Your employer is the government - by and large the Services struggle to influence the government to maintain good employment practices. We want to attract, reward and retain. They see us as an expensive insurance policy and obviously they want to keep the cost down.
PPrune is looked at by the Corporate Comms team rather than the Service Personnel policy hoods (tri-Service staff). But the point is there is plenty of information on the proposed pension changes out there but many would rather listen to rumour and conjecture rather than read the documents.
Fundamentally pension law ensures that when the scheme changes then reserved rights to remain on the old scheme must be put in place. Individuals have to compare and contrast the benefits of each.
Given the state of the nations finances, and MODs in particular, I would be pleasantly surprised - ne gobsmacked - if the new scheme was more generous to me than the old one but I await the figures with interest.
One final point - don't confuse Serving in the RAF with being employed by the RAF. Your employer is the government - by and large the Services struggle to influence the government to maintain good employment practices. We want to attract, reward and retain. They see us as an expensive insurance policy and obviously they want to keep the cost down.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone else receive the big announcement on this subject from CDS today?
I will endeavour to post it - no big shocks contained within, preserved pensions to slip from 60 to 65 on a future date tbc, those in today maintain rights and there is no mention of the tax free status being taken away.
G
I will endeavour to post it - no big shocks contained within, preserved pensions to slip from 60 to 65 on a future date tbc, those in today maintain rights and there is no mention of the tax free status being taken away.
G
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oxfordshire / Wiltshire
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.ukonline.gov.uk/News/News...912&chk=DNWsP6
Changes to the Armed Forces pension announced today will result in more benefits for widows and extend the scheme to cover unmarried partners.
The new Armed Forces pension and compensation schemes include:
A death-in-service benefit of four times pensionable pay – an increase from one and a half times
A rise of one quarter in widow(er)’s pension compared to the current scheme
An extension of dependants’ benefits to unmarried partners where there is a substantial relationship
Defence Minister Ivor Caplin said: “These changes reflect key concerns raised during consultation and address the need to make proper provision for those who are left behind when personnel are killed in service.”
The new compensation scheme will provide better focus on the severely disabled. Lump sum payments will, for the first time, be available for pain and suffering resulting from injury. A guaranteed income stream will be awarded for more serious injury where there is a loss of earnings capacity. Benefits will be extended to include unmarried partners.
"The Ministry of Defence is also, with immediate effect, extending to all deaths due to service the provisions introduced on 20 March 2003 which provided benefits to unmarried partners for deaths related to conflict,” said Mr Caplin.
The new pension scheme will be introduced in April 2005 for new entrants, and the new compensation scheme will be introduced in April 2005 for all injuries, illnesses and deaths due to service which occur on or after that date. Members of the Armed forces will be given the option of remaining in the existing pension scheme or transferring to the new scheme.
Full details at
http://www.mod.uk/issues/pensions/new_afps.htm
Changes to the Armed Forces pension announced today will result in more benefits for widows and extend the scheme to cover unmarried partners.
The new Armed Forces pension and compensation schemes include:
A death-in-service benefit of four times pensionable pay – an increase from one and a half times
A rise of one quarter in widow(er)’s pension compared to the current scheme
An extension of dependants’ benefits to unmarried partners where there is a substantial relationship
Defence Minister Ivor Caplin said: “These changes reflect key concerns raised during consultation and address the need to make proper provision for those who are left behind when personnel are killed in service.”
The new compensation scheme will provide better focus on the severely disabled. Lump sum payments will, for the first time, be available for pain and suffering resulting from injury. A guaranteed income stream will be awarded for more serious injury where there is a loss of earnings capacity. Benefits will be extended to include unmarried partners.
"The Ministry of Defence is also, with immediate effect, extending to all deaths due to service the provisions introduced on 20 March 2003 which provided benefits to unmarried partners for deaths related to conflict,” said Mr Caplin.
The new pension scheme will be introduced in April 2005 for new entrants, and the new compensation scheme will be introduced in April 2005 for all injuries, illnesses and deaths due to service which occur on or after that date. Members of the Armed forces will be given the option of remaining in the existing pension scheme or transferring to the new scheme.
Full details at
http://www.mod.uk/issues/pensions/new_afps.htm
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Shefford, Beds, UK
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Big Announcement
Buff's latest retention idea :
http://www.mod.uk/issues/pensions/new_afps.htm
Some of the small print not included for public consumption is that whilst there are reserved rights, once they set a date (unknown as yet) ALL time earned thereafter will be under the new scheme.
e.g. You are now 40 and in 2 years time they set the date for transfer. You elect to depart at 44 (as if) you will receive payment up to age 42 with the additional 2 years being added at 65. You still get your pension/gratuity but minus 2/70ths (equal to the last 2 years after the 'date')
This detail was on CHOtS today but is not in the glossy on the MOD site.
Gets my vote . . . . . . . . . best I use my feet to register.
http://www.mod.uk/issues/pensions/new_afps.htm
Some of the small print not included for public consumption is that whilst there are reserved rights, once they set a date (unknown as yet) ALL time earned thereafter will be under the new scheme.
e.g. You are now 40 and in 2 years time they set the date for transfer. You elect to depart at 44 (as if) you will receive payment up to age 42 with the additional 2 years being added at 65. You still get your pension/gratuity but minus 2/70ths (equal to the last 2 years after the 'date')
This detail was on CHOtS today but is not in the glossy on the MOD site.
Gets my vote . . . . . . . . . best I use my feet to register.
so....if i have got this right, if say I have 12 years left to serve and for arguments sake, the new scheme starts next year (Jan 01 04).......I would be pensioned on the 10 years allready served at the old scheme rate.....but the next 12 years service would NOT be pensioned to me until I was 65???( and not 40 as currently stands?)
Have I got this right??
Have I got this right??
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Shefford, Beds, UK
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GW - That would appear to be the way but we've offered it to a local financial advisor to make some sense of it. He/we don't understand how it can be done if you have 'reserved rights' 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Hotels various
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I am reading the briefing notes correctly this could be good news for those PAS pilots planning to stay until 55.
Under the current scheme, based on representative rates of pay, using 2002 pension rates with 34 years service the pension is 25971 pa. This is midway between a CS Sqn Ldr and Wg Cdr pension.
Under the new scheme, if it really is a true final salary scheme paying 50% of pay after 35 years, if you are on the top PAS increment (61473 at 2002 rates) then the pension should be 30736.
This is back to the same rate as a level 1 Gp Capt's pension which was the original rumour when PAS was first mentioned.
If I serve to 55 as a PAS pilot has my pension really improved by about 18 % under the new scheme - it seems too good to be true so it probably is.
Anyone care to comment on my figures?
Under the current scheme, based on representative rates of pay, using 2002 pension rates with 34 years service the pension is 25971 pa. This is midway between a CS Sqn Ldr and Wg Cdr pension.
Under the new scheme, if it really is a true final salary scheme paying 50% of pay after 35 years, if you are on the top PAS increment (61473 at 2002 rates) then the pension should be 30736.
This is back to the same rate as a level 1 Gp Capt's pension which was the original rumour when PAS was first mentioned.
If I serve to 55 as a PAS pilot has my pension really improved by about 18 % under the new scheme - it seems too good to be true so it probably is.
Anyone care to comment on my figures?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 60
Posts: 2,052
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
6 Posts
So much for me getting the official opinion and briefing the squadron that it will probably never happen. I am on leave/terminal leave as of next week and had been sleepless thinking about 'was I doing the right thing?'. Answer.... Yes. Today Jayteeto is mostly saying .... Goodbye. 
Two points:
First, I attended a navy briefing recently and they suggested that if you changed your terms of service, then you would have to join the new scheme.
Second, for OBD, you need to ask what happens if you loose your medical cat as PA. The current rules are fairly specific, ie you loose flying pay 91 days after a permanent downgrade, but that doesn't affect your pension. Has anyone thought about what would happen in the PA case?
First, I attended a navy briefing recently and they suggested that if you changed your terms of service, then you would have to join the new scheme.
Second, for OBD, you need to ask what happens if you loose your medical cat as PA. The current rules are fairly specific, ie you loose flying pay 91 days after a permanent downgrade, but that doesn't affect your pension. Has anyone thought about what would happen in the PA case?
jayteeto - it's hardly surprising that people simply aren't prepared to take any risks over anything to do with changes in terms of service and pensions. I smelled a large rat about this time last year and decided that, unless there was something really attractive for those who were going to be 50+ on 1 Apr 2003 announced by the AFPRB, then I'd pull the handle. There wasn't, I did. And haven't regretted it for one single minute.
It was bad enough that the RAF I joined had been so decimated; it was when the prospect of government meddling with pensions came up that I finally decided that enough was enough.
Hope that you find something good, jayteeto!
It was bad enough that the RAF I joined had been so decimated; it was when the prospect of government meddling with pensions came up that I finally decided that enough was enough.
Hope that you find something good, jayteeto!
Last edited by BEagle; 17th Sep 2003 at 23:46.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 2nd biggest country in world
Age: 55
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So let me get this right,...... we are knackered by pension changes if we get promoted, and obviouly change our terms of service........
What if you don't get promoted before 22 year point, are they going to sign to you on so that you can still earn a decent pension that you'll be able enjoy when you get older?
This civillian ground tour I have been on for 20 months may make me think about my possible re-enlistment.... chances of promotion after leaving on PVR????? mmmmmm not very high I would imagine. 7 years more service then no pension until I am 65 ....... I don't think so
What if you don't get promoted before 22 year point, are they going to sign to you on so that you can still earn a decent pension that you'll be able enjoy when you get older?
This civillian ground tour I have been on for 20 months may make me think about my possible re-enlistment.... chances of promotion after leaving on PVR????? mmmmmm not very high I would imagine. 7 years more service then no pension until I am 65 ....... I don't think so