Pensions Alert
Well, this was one of the reasons that I decided to PVR - so that I would be able receive the promised pension and terminal grant before the government had sufficient time to threaten it with any new legislation! I simply wasn't prepared to risk waiting to see what Gordon was planning to hit us with...... Plus there was nothing in this year's AFPRB report to offer a financial retention incentive - and I couldn't transfer to the 'more advantageous' PA TOS in any case.
The question now is whether to go for Life Commutation as well. Whilst there's nothing worth investing in at present, I'm minded not to, preferring the better pension rate which is index-linked at 55.
The question now is whether to go for Life Commutation as well. Whilst there's nothing worth investing in at present, I'm minded not to, preferring the better pension rate which is index-linked at 55.
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Beagle,
I would have a serious think about Life Commutation. At 55, the rate is about £15 per pound of pension surrendered. Even invested in a savings account at 4% your are not far off recouping your intial pension reduction and off course you have access to the capital should you require it.
The reason it was stopped remember was that it was disadvantageous to the Treasury. At the rates I mentioned above, even with no interest, you would have to live to 70 before the Treasuary was in profit on the deal!
I also believe that your pension is index-linked irrespective of Life Commutation It would just be on a lower amount
I would have a serious think about Life Commutation. At 55, the rate is about £15 per pound of pension surrendered. Even invested in a savings account at 4% your are not far off recouping your intial pension reduction and off course you have access to the capital should you require it.
The reason it was stopped remember was that it was disadvantageous to the Treasury. At the rates I mentioned above, even with no interest, you would have to live to 70 before the Treasuary was in profit on the deal!
I also believe that your pension is index-linked irrespective of Life Commutation It would just be on a lower amount
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BEAGLE
Sorry to hear you are leaving. The question of whether or not to commute is a tricky one and irrevocable. It is worth getting specialist advice tailored to your personal circumstances. When the Banks ceased being the pay agents (years ago!) they were paid a retainer by MOD to provide financial advice to service personnel. It is (or was) free and worth taking up. Or at least pay for advice from an accountant. I say this despite the fact that Lloyds Bank in 1983 advised me to commute the maximum and become a Name at Lloyds (underwriters) - which I luckily did not take.
Sorry to hear you are leaving. The question of whether or not to commute is a tricky one and irrevocable. It is worth getting specialist advice tailored to your personal circumstances. When the Banks ceased being the pay agents (years ago!) they were paid a retainer by MOD to provide financial advice to service personnel. It is (or was) free and worth taking up. Or at least pay for advice from an accountant. I say this despite the fact that Lloyds Bank in 1983 advised me to commute the maximum and become a Name at Lloyds (underwriters) - which I luckily did not take.
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Covec,
One of the below should get you there eventually:
http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/
http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/greenpaper/
http://www.ukonline.gov.uk/Discussio...s%7Een,00.html
As far as commenting, I understand you are allowed to comment (as a taxpayer etc), to write to your MP but not allowed to sell your story to the Sun.....but Mrs Covec ( if appropriate) is quite at liberty to.
G
One of the below should get you there eventually:
http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/
http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/greenpaper/
http://www.ukonline.gov.uk/Discussio...s%7Een,00.html
As far as commenting, I understand you are allowed to comment (as a taxpayer etc), to write to your MP but not allowed to sell your story to the Sun.....but Mrs Covec ( if appropriate) is quite at liberty to.
G
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Taking the bulls by the horns, this has been posted on the DWP discussion forum.
Can I urge all of you that are interested to do the same?
'Some questions for Mr Smith MP:
Are the planned reforms going to affect the Armed Forces Pension Scheme?
I, like many others, have encountered endless moves of houses, had childrens schooling disrupted and served at short notice in remotes places on the promise of a gratuity and modest immediate pension at the end of my service. This was written into my terms and conditions of service and was only 2 months ago reiterated in a brochure that was received by many servicemen.
How will your reforms affect this?
Why? I have obtained a mortgage on the strength of the promised gratuity and modest pension. Moving house so often does little to impress mortgage companies but having the promise of a tax-free lump sum in a few years time does.
What was meant by Dr Moonies comments on 3 Mar 03 in the House of Commons that implied that only those that completed their time would receive an immediate pension and that others would have to wait until 65 to receive any benefits?
How is this going to help the 40 year old soldier who has to find a second career? Soldiering is a young, healthy, fit persons vocation and is not something that can be effectively done over this age. Commissioned personnel are slightly different but will they still receive a gratuity and immediate pension after 16 years service?
This matter has been hidden well from all public sector workers that might receive benefits such as those in the Armed Forces Pension Scheme. The Fire Service, Police Service to name but two.
If the reforms affect the AFPS in the way that it is predicted I would expect 50 000 serving personnel to leave the Armed Forces - it is not worth the disruption to family life if the modest financial compensation is removed.
Finally, how do you think those personnel deployed on Op TELIC in the Middle East will react to this news when they find out about it. They have extremely serious business to think about and doubts over issues like the ones stated here should be the last of their concerns as they prepare to fight.
The servicemen of the UK have shown on many occasions in previous years their dedication and willingness to get on with the job (including during the recent firemans strike) - is this how you intend to return that loyalty?
I look forward to the debate on this matter.'
Interesting stuff.
G
Can I urge all of you that are interested to do the same?
'Some questions for Mr Smith MP:
Are the planned reforms going to affect the Armed Forces Pension Scheme?
I, like many others, have encountered endless moves of houses, had childrens schooling disrupted and served at short notice in remotes places on the promise of a gratuity and modest immediate pension at the end of my service. This was written into my terms and conditions of service and was only 2 months ago reiterated in a brochure that was received by many servicemen.
How will your reforms affect this?
Why? I have obtained a mortgage on the strength of the promised gratuity and modest pension. Moving house so often does little to impress mortgage companies but having the promise of a tax-free lump sum in a few years time does.
What was meant by Dr Moonies comments on 3 Mar 03 in the House of Commons that implied that only those that completed their time would receive an immediate pension and that others would have to wait until 65 to receive any benefits?
How is this going to help the 40 year old soldier who has to find a second career? Soldiering is a young, healthy, fit persons vocation and is not something that can be effectively done over this age. Commissioned personnel are slightly different but will they still receive a gratuity and immediate pension after 16 years service?
This matter has been hidden well from all public sector workers that might receive benefits such as those in the Armed Forces Pension Scheme. The Fire Service, Police Service to name but two.
If the reforms affect the AFPS in the way that it is predicted I would expect 50 000 serving personnel to leave the Armed Forces - it is not worth the disruption to family life if the modest financial compensation is removed.
Finally, how do you think those personnel deployed on Op TELIC in the Middle East will react to this news when they find out about it. They have extremely serious business to think about and doubts over issues like the ones stated here should be the last of their concerns as they prepare to fight.
The servicemen of the UK have shown on many occasions in previous years their dedication and willingness to get on with the job (including during the recent firemans strike) - is this how you intend to return that loyalty?
I look forward to the debate on this matter.'
Interesting stuff.
G
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Following NCA FRI, I was honestly prepared to serve longer.
Not now, not if it looks as if we are going to have our gratuity taxed or delayed.
I am not the only one - and these concerns are starting to affect other service personnel, not just aircrew.
I think that the "demographic bulge" just starting to hit the forces will certainly worsen if the AFPS gratuity is changed in ANY way.
NB "Demographic bulge" = cold war recruits.
God Speed to all on Active Service. 110% support.
Not now, not if it looks as if we are going to have our gratuity taxed or delayed.
I am not the only one - and these concerns are starting to affect other service personnel, not just aircrew.
I think that the "demographic bulge" just starting to hit the forces will certainly worsen if the AFPS gratuity is changed in ANY way.
NB "Demographic bulge" = cold war recruits.
God Speed to all on Active Service. 110% support.
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Whilst the UK Forces fight in the Gulf - who will fight for them against the Inland Revenue & safeguard the tradtional AFPS tax-free gratuity?
As service personnel, do we have ANYONE to fight for US?
As service personnel, do we have ANYONE to fight for US?
For those interested which should mean anyone who intends to serve past their Immediate Pension Point (38/16 in Aircrew speak) , there is an update on the RAF Intranet on the subject of the government's Green Paper. I'm probably not allowed to quote from it on here, so you'll need to access the RAF Portal and look under Corporate News.
If I was staying, I'd want to know with some urgency that for those intending to leave between IPP and age 55 there would be no threat to the tax-free lump sum terminal grant at IPP - and that the 'frozen' pension would still ramp up by the overall RPI change at age 55. There is no reason to think that anyone is going to lose out, so there should be no need to be alarmed - the positive effect on retention of the current AFPS is well understood by those involved in staffing the response to the Green Paper.
If I was staying, I'd want to know with some urgency that for those intending to leave between IPP and age 55 there would be no threat to the tax-free lump sum terminal grant at IPP - and that the 'frozen' pension would still ramp up by the overall RPI change at age 55. There is no reason to think that anyone is going to lose out, so there should be no need to be alarmed - the positive effect on retention of the current AFPS is well understood by those involved in staffing the response to the Green Paper.
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Sorry BEagle but you are obviously one of these people who think that life begins and ends at Cranwell. There are many people, professional aircrew, who's IPP is not at 38/16, but at 22.
As to Covec, I am one of the "demographic bulge" that you allude to, but as I understand it, if you get out before 2010, you should be ok, reseverved rights and all that. If you chose to stay beyond 2010, then decide to leave, you are on your own, and enjoy your pension at 65.
There are many variables just now, the AFPRB report due sometime soon(?), as well as the governments pensions review, due April 04, to be implemented Apr 2010. I am just hoping that, for those of us that it directly concerns during this "in-between" period, we are given enough time and information to make the correct decisions. Unfortunately I think the correct and sensible decision is " leave at 22". If you do not, it will cost you.
There have been numerous topics discusssing pensions, time to leave etc, on PPruNe recently, and I think that the government review will force many of us to leave at 22, whether we want to or not. The good work done by the team regarding airmen aircrew retention will go to waste because of the governnent policy.
PS thanks for the money, bye bye at 22
As to Covec, I am one of the "demographic bulge" that you allude to, but as I understand it, if you get out before 2010, you should be ok, reseverved rights and all that. If you chose to stay beyond 2010, then decide to leave, you are on your own, and enjoy your pension at 65.
There are many variables just now, the AFPRB report due sometime soon(?), as well as the governments pensions review, due April 04, to be implemented Apr 2010. I am just hoping that, for those of us that it directly concerns during this "in-between" period, we are given enough time and information to make the correct decisions. Unfortunately I think the correct and sensible decision is " leave at 22". If you do not, it will cost you.
There have been numerous topics discusssing pensions, time to leave etc, on PPruNe recently, and I think that the government review will force many of us to leave at 22, whether we want to or not. The good work done by the team regarding airmen aircrew retention will go to waste because of the governnent policy.
PS thanks for the money, bye bye at 22
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Yeller_gait'
I was with you 100% right up to the point where you said
'The good work done by the team regarding airmen aircrew retention will go to waste because of the governnent policy'
Sorry matey, there was NO good work done as far as AA retention is concerned, as you will no doubt see over the coming 12 - 18 months. AA were 'sold down the river' yet again. eg who do you know that would leave at their 17 yr point?? no many I suggest
I was with you 100% right up to the point where you said
'The good work done by the team regarding airmen aircrew retention will go to waste because of the governnent policy'
Sorry matey, there was NO good work done as far as AA retention is concerned, as you will no doubt see over the coming 12 - 18 months. AA were 'sold down the river' yet again. eg who do you know that would leave at their 17 yr point?? no many I suggest
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YG,
I too agreed with your comments other than the bit about the AA.
Do you really mean to tell me (and everyone else here) that you think AA got good deal out of the review??
Were you looking at the same review as I was, and most other AA? We did not do well out of it, indeed, on the contrary, we did very bad.
As Grob points out, it will soon become extremely apparent when we find the Helo fleet, Truckie fleet, Maritime fleet and AEW fleet devoid of the much needed AA.
Of course that only leaves the FJ fleet left, well there's a surprise! a FJ air farce, run by FJ aircrew
Nope, you were good up to that point, then you lost it old bean!
Sorry for the dig at FJ mates!
Regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers,
I too agreed with your comments other than the bit about the AA.
Do you really mean to tell me (and everyone else here) that you think AA got good deal out of the review??
Were you looking at the same review as I was, and most other AA? We did not do well out of it, indeed, on the contrary, we did very bad.
As Grob points out, it will soon become extremely apparent when we find the Helo fleet, Truckie fleet, Maritime fleet and AEW fleet devoid of the much needed AA.
Of course that only leaves the FJ fleet left, well there's a surprise! a FJ air farce, run by FJ aircrew
Nope, you were good up to that point, then you lost it old bean!
Sorry for the dig at FJ mates!
Regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers,
Sorry Y_G, yes I failed to research things fully. In the Flying Branch (as it's now known), 38/16 is the Pilot/WSO IPP.
Airmen Aircrew are officially extinct. Hot off the press, you are now going to be known collectively as 'Non-commissioned aircrew (NCA)'. DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!
Airmen Aircrew are officially extinct. Hot off the press, you are now going to be known collectively as 'Non-commissioned aircrew (NCA)'. DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!
The question which needs to be asked is:
"What assurance can be given that neither the availability nor value of the pension and terminal grant currently payable to those retiring on or after their Immediate Pension Point will be compromised by current Green Paper discussions concerning pensions."
Yes - I know. Too long. But I never did ISS!!
"What assurance can be given that neither the availability nor value of the pension and terminal grant currently payable to those retiring on or after their Immediate Pension Point will be compromised by current Green Paper discussions concerning pensions."
Yes - I know. Too long. But I never did ISS!!
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Grob, Monkey,
Just to clarify a point or two, we did far better in the review than we could have done, and having recently been to a second Q & A session with the Gp Capt pilot involved, he again stated that although NCA's do not leave the service around their 17 year point, a lot of them do leave to get commissioned etc. The boards remit was to try and retain EVERYONE that leaves NCA.
Just to clarify a point or two, we did far better in the review than we could have done, and having recently been to a second Q & A session with the Gp Capt pilot involved, he again stated that although NCA's do not leave the service around their 17 year point, a lot of them do leave to get commissioned etc. The boards remit was to try and retain EVERYONE that leaves NCA.
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Hmmmm.. so where does this leave someone like me who is a FJ Pilot with a 16yr point in 2011? Completely $hafted!! I can only thank this web site for bringing it to my attention... out here in the desert we certainly dont have our finger on that sort of pulse!
So, lets put it all into perspective.... Ive been here for months, getting shot at over the border and without the TAX FREE pay that our American and Australian friends get for being on OPS only to receive news like this! Thanks! Oh hold on I forgot the fantastic welfare package out here in Ali.... (laughable more like).
Winge aside, what will the effect really be on me? Well the carrot on the stick job that the aircrew retention scheme is/will be doing (although very very small carrot) will now fizzle into insignificance. Looks like Im going to have to worry about the thousands of pounds I will be losing.
When will this government finally get it into their heads that they can not CONTINUE to $haft the Armed Forces in this way if indeed they want a credible force to still exist? What was one of the only securities (and also main attractions) on joining looks as if it will be swept away from beneath us! Surely thousands will leave ASAP?
As for me, if all of this does come true then it looks like Ill be finishing off my min productive service and exiting stage left. Hows that for your AIRCREW RETENTION???
So, lets put it all into perspective.... Ive been here for months, getting shot at over the border and without the TAX FREE pay that our American and Australian friends get for being on OPS only to receive news like this! Thanks! Oh hold on I forgot the fantastic welfare package out here in Ali.... (laughable more like).
Winge aside, what will the effect really be on me? Well the carrot on the stick job that the aircrew retention scheme is/will be doing (although very very small carrot) will now fizzle into insignificance. Looks like Im going to have to worry about the thousands of pounds I will be losing.
When will this government finally get it into their heads that they can not CONTINUE to $haft the Armed Forces in this way if indeed they want a credible force to still exist? What was one of the only securities (and also main attractions) on joining looks as if it will be swept away from beneath us! Surely thousands will leave ASAP?
As for me, if all of this does come true then it looks like Ill be finishing off my min productive service and exiting stage left. Hows that for your AIRCREW RETENTION???