wannabie ALM !
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advice needed please !
Hullooo
I was asking my dad (pilot in oman) all kindsa questions that he could'nt answer and he suggested i post them on this site. So here go's.
I am currently serving an ftrs type engagement as a ta soldier with the army in the "white helmets" (motorcycle display team) which is full time and has been for the last three years . As the post is coming to an end i am faced with either re-engaging, signing on full time or finding a job i civvie street I am 27 now and as time is ticking away. The last two options are not really that appealling. So i have decided to go to OASC and hopefully ALM. The army is happy for me to do this in their time thankfully............ right so now on to my questions !!
Does anyone know of others who have done something similar (as in transfer from raf to army .. or visa versa) .. will my age lessen my chances of success ?
Another one i've not really been able to get a straight answer about is the fact that for the first 26 weeks trg. as snco aircrew the salary is around 10k which for me is about 50% reduction which will be a financial nightmare (not that this will put me off) but duty rumours say that service personel cannot take a reduction in pay ... is this true ???
As for any current loadies reading this .... what is the job/life like is it as rewarding as it seems ? Most squaddies i know when asked about their job etc. will whinge about the food,accom.,pay,wives etc so apart from that side of it what is it really like ?
I know that these are all questions for the screening interview !! But I wanted to talk with serving airmen to get as much info. as i can.
My first attempt at oasc in 1998 was unsuccessful however i completed the 4 days without getting binned and think on reflection that part of the reason may have been because i limited my chance with regard to my choice of trade at the interview i said that i would only be interested in ALM and would not consider any of the others....thinking that this would show determination ....etc But have always wondered what could have been had i not been so pig headed and shown a bit more flexibility !!! Anyway i'll stop rabbiting on and post this .. thanks for any help/advise that you may be able to give me.
I was asking my dad (pilot in oman) all kindsa questions that he could'nt answer and he suggested i post them on this site. So here go's.
I am currently serving an ftrs type engagement as a ta soldier with the army in the "white helmets" (motorcycle display team) which is full time and has been for the last three years . As the post is coming to an end i am faced with either re-engaging, signing on full time or finding a job i civvie street I am 27 now and as time is ticking away. The last two options are not really that appealling. So i have decided to go to OASC and hopefully ALM. The army is happy for me to do this in their time thankfully............ right so now on to my questions !!
Does anyone know of others who have done something similar (as in transfer from raf to army .. or visa versa) .. will my age lessen my chances of success ?
Another one i've not really been able to get a straight answer about is the fact that for the first 26 weeks trg. as snco aircrew the salary is around 10k which for me is about 50% reduction which will be a financial nightmare (not that this will put me off) but duty rumours say that service personel cannot take a reduction in pay ... is this true ???
As for any current loadies reading this .... what is the job/life like is it as rewarding as it seems ? Most squaddies i know when asked about their job etc. will whinge about the food,accom.,pay,wives etc so apart from that side of it what is it really like ?
I know that these are all questions for the screening interview !! But I wanted to talk with serving airmen to get as much info. as i can.
My first attempt at oasc in 1998 was unsuccessful however i completed the 4 days without getting binned and think on reflection that part of the reason may have been because i limited my chance with regard to my choice of trade at the interview i said that i would only be interested in ALM and would not consider any of the others....thinking that this would show determination ....etc But have always wondered what could have been had i not been so pig headed and shown a bit more flexibility !!! Anyway i'll stop rabbiting on and post this .. thanks for any help/advise that you may be able to give me.
Last edited by pongoid; 2nd Jan 2003 at 15:55.
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Hi i can answer some of your questions.
Firstly i know loads of pongo type chaps who've made the big break and joined the light blue (as aircrew) - and to my knowledge none have regretted it.
Secondly if you are already serving in the armed forces and change trades or branch of service you generally will stay on 'mark time pay'. That is not lose any money and stay on your current salary until your new trades pay catches up or overtakes your present one. However don't take that as 100% gospel - as there are sometimes differences in each case. Talk to your personnel people for a definitive answer!?
Can't comment on the loadie side but i'm sure someone will be able to help.
However the RAF is crying out for AEOps and you can bet OASC will try and guide you in that direction if you let them.
Good Luck!
Firstly i know loads of pongo type chaps who've made the big break and joined the light blue (as aircrew) - and to my knowledge none have regretted it.
Secondly if you are already serving in the armed forces and change trades or branch of service you generally will stay on 'mark time pay'. That is not lose any money and stay on your current salary until your new trades pay catches up or overtakes your present one. However don't take that as 100% gospel - as there are sometimes differences in each case. Talk to your personnel people for a definitive answer!?
Can't comment on the loadie side but i'm sure someone will be able to help.
However the RAF is crying out for AEOps and you can bet OASC will try and guide you in that direction if you let them.
Good Luck!
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Go For It
Hi Pongoid,
Did the very same thing a few years ago. Be careful of the money thing though, I couldn't transfer (the royal corps managed to bluff the army board about shortfall in rank and trade etc) so had to sign off, attend OASC, then wait and hope - got my letter about a fortnight after leaving the army - so the RAF could pay me as a recruit! Nice touch!
It's a completely different life, the jobs fantastic, hard work but worth it. I was older than you on commencement of training, so you should be alright age wise.
Visit some Sqns, try and get a mix of fixed wing and rotary units (incl SAR) and dig all the gen you can out of them - arrange to speak to some of the newest guys and girls on the Sqns, they'll tell you about the training system.
Good Luck!
PS On AEOP - not my cup of tea - go to Kinloss and talk to them about it - it reminded me far to much of 14 Sigs.
Did the very same thing a few years ago. Be careful of the money thing though, I couldn't transfer (the royal corps managed to bluff the army board about shortfall in rank and trade etc) so had to sign off, attend OASC, then wait and hope - got my letter about a fortnight after leaving the army - so the RAF could pay me as a recruit! Nice touch!
It's a completely different life, the jobs fantastic, hard work but worth it. I was older than you on commencement of training, so you should be alright age wise.
Visit some Sqns, try and get a mix of fixed wing and rotary units (incl SAR) and dig all the gen you can out of them - arrange to speak to some of the newest guys and girls on the Sqns, they'll tell you about the training system.
Good Luck!
PS On AEOP - not my cup of tea - go to Kinloss and talk to them about it - it reminded me far to much of 14 Sigs.
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Pongoid,
I think that you need to delve a little deeper into the money side of things if it is concerning you - I have a slight suspiscion that you might have been sold a line about the marking time thing.
Having recently escaped from Blandford myself I know a man who might be able to help you - give the RAO a ring ( Capt(Retd) N.) as he knows what he 's on about and will help if he can. His FSA is very nice ( mmm if you know what I mean ) but I sometimes wondered if she had her finger on the financial matters pulse. FTRS is slightly different from all of the other types of engagements - I know this much - but sorry I can't be of more help.
As for the Royal Corps and m2mob's post, there is some utter drivel and BS that comes out of Engineer Corner and the APC - do not believe it when they tell you that it can't be done, don't accept a shut door, and go and do it if it is what you want. It is frightening to think that SOinC thinks it is running a Corps and that everyone looks up to it !!
Private message me if you want to know more.
G
I think that you need to delve a little deeper into the money side of things if it is concerning you - I have a slight suspiscion that you might have been sold a line about the marking time thing.
Having recently escaped from Blandford myself I know a man who might be able to help you - give the RAO a ring ( Capt(Retd) N.) as he knows what he 's on about and will help if he can. His FSA is very nice ( mmm if you know what I mean ) but I sometimes wondered if she had her finger on the financial matters pulse. FTRS is slightly different from all of the other types of engagements - I know this much - but sorry I can't be of more help.
As for the Royal Corps and m2mob's post, there is some utter drivel and BS that comes out of Engineer Corner and the APC - do not believe it when they tell you that it can't be done, don't accept a shut door, and go and do it if it is what you want. It is frightening to think that SOinC thinks it is running a Corps and that everyone looks up to it !!
Private message me if you want to know more.
G
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Hi pongoid, Im an ALM employed in the Crewman role , I have also served at Kinloss and saw the job of an AEOP , if i was you I'd be staying clear however I am biased. As for the pay issue you would be paid as a JNR Tech acting SNCO after 12 weeks of training thats about 21k so not far off what your on now however go to a CIO and get it in writing what they offer you ok . As for fact finding give Odiham a call and they will give you the speal from Chinooks call 28 at Benson and speak to a loady there and likewise with LYN and BZN . If you serious and want more gen message me with a contact no and I can get you some contacts as I have done in the past for wannabes good look and its al about dedication . Also ring PMA 5 up at Innesworth he's the ALM poster he'll give you some good gen . message me
Any spelling mistakes are spicey and coke induced and i dont give a *****
Any spelling mistakes are spicey and coke induced and i dont give a *****
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Pongoid
I'm a TA signaller myself and, while I'd love to be an ALM, I can't due to slightly ropey eyesight. I'd actually rather be an AEOp though (bizarre, but true).
I went to Kinloss for two days in April 2002 and flew with a crew from CXX sqn. I had a fantastic time while up north and it is something I will never forget. AEOp looks to me like a fantastic job.
From what I have learned over the years I've spent trying and failing to join the RAF as aircrew, I'd suggest that you apply for ALM only. This is because they are much shorter of AEOps (or just get much less applicants) than of ALMs. If you miss out on that, but still were fairly good, they may well give you a crack at AEOp. If you put both down, you're more likely to end up with AEOp.
Please note that I am someone who has failed OASC and therefore have no inside knowledge of the RAF. This is just what I have learned from trying to get in for years and reading pprune for years as well.
Best of luck
Tim
PS You can't fail to stand out from the crowd as a member of the White Helmets!
I'm a TA signaller myself and, while I'd love to be an ALM, I can't due to slightly ropey eyesight. I'd actually rather be an AEOp though (bizarre, but true).
I went to Kinloss for two days in April 2002 and flew with a crew from CXX sqn. I had a fantastic time while up north and it is something I will never forget. AEOp looks to me like a fantastic job.
From what I have learned over the years I've spent trying and failing to join the RAF as aircrew, I'd suggest that you apply for ALM only. This is because they are much shorter of AEOps (or just get much less applicants) than of ALMs. If you miss out on that, but still were fairly good, they may well give you a crack at AEOp. If you put both down, you're more likely to end up with AEOp.
Please note that I am someone who has failed OASC and therefore have no inside knowledge of the RAF. This is just what I have learned from trying to get in for years and reading pprune for years as well.
Best of luck
Tim
PS You can't fail to stand out from the crowd as a member of the White Helmets!
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Pongoid,
Some top advice being offered here. The only way to sort the pay issue is to seek up to date advice from a CIO, or even a call to Cranwell may bear fruit.
As regards ALM lifestyle it's a whole new world from what you have so far experianced. I had 9 years rotary and am currently at Lyneham on the Herc, whilst heli flying is as much fun as you can have with your clothes on fixed wing route flying is far more relaxed
Cranwell used to do a once a month "open day" for potential Airmen Aircrew guys so that would be worth checking out, maybe someone here knows if it still happens?
Best of luck anyway.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Some top advice being offered here. The only way to sort the pay issue is to seek up to date advice from a CIO, or even a call to Cranwell may bear fruit.
As regards ALM lifestyle it's a whole new world from what you have so far experianced. I had 9 years rotary and am currently at Lyneham on the Herc, whilst heli flying is as much fun as you can have with your clothes on
fixed wing route flying is far more relaxedCranwell used to do a once a month "open day" for potential Airmen Aircrew guys so that would be worth checking out, maybe someone here knows if it still happens?
Best of luck anyway.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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I went on a visit to the Navigator and Airman Aircrew School at Cranwell a couple of years ago. I'd suggest phoning them to see if they still run a visit. The one I went to was very good.
The best part was a lecture given by an AEOp who started by asking for a show of hands for who wanted to be an AEOp. I think there was only me out of about 35 people. He did his spiel about AEOpping and asked again at the end and about half the room put their hands up.
Yeah ok, so he should be a politician.......
The best part was a lecture given by an AEOp who started by asking for a show of hands for who wanted to be an AEOp. I think there was only me out of about 35 people. He did his spiel about AEOpping and asked again at the end and about half the room put their hands up.
Yeah ok, so he should be a politician.......
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Single brevet (and trade) after April, no more ALM v AEOp recruitment options. Also news inbound in Feb that may be a change to the terms of service, this has potential for not being good news for all.
There are several disallusioned people waiting for this news before deciding on their futures, and these pages will be full of AA opinions in the coming months: Keep reading.
T_M
There are several disallusioned people waiting for this news before deciding on their futures, and these pages will be full of AA opinions in the coming months: Keep reading.
T_M
A few tips if you want to become airman aircrew:
Watch lots of videos of 70's cop classic "The Professionals" and copy the dress sense of Bodie and Doyle.
Grow dodgy porn star moustache.
Buy a Ford Capri 2.8i but tell everyone that you're saving up for your dream car - a Cossie.
Buy an economy supersize pack of white socks - you'll need them !
Whinge incessantly that officers are paid more/have better prospects than you.
Declare loudly to all and sundry "right thats it, I'm leaving" and then do nothing.
Watch lots of videos of 70's cop classic "The Professionals" and copy the dress sense of Bodie and Doyle.
Grow dodgy porn star moustache.
Buy a Ford Capri 2.8i but tell everyone that you're saving up for your dream car - a Cossie.
Buy an economy supersize pack of white socks - you'll need them !
Whinge incessantly that officers are paid more/have better prospects than you.
Declare loudly to all and sundry "right thats it, I'm leaving" and then do nothing.
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I was a marine for 5 years, went to civvie street for 3 years and then joined the RAF as Aircrew. I got a letter from OASC telling PMA that I remained on my original terms of service from the marines ie 22 year engagement with 17 years left to serve and I was paid as an LAC fro the first 26 weeks not as an AC.
LAC pay is pretty low if you look at the books but Iwas actually getting about £43 a day.
As for your choices at OASC, if you want ALM and are not interested in AEOp then don't put AEOp down. That is just my opinion, I'm not sure of OASC's agenda, but it seems that the RAF is short of potential AEOp recruits and has plenty of ALM wannabes. therefore if you put AEOp and pass OASC I think you will get it, even if it is not your first choice.
As it is I am an AEOp (my third choice!!) but fortunate enough to be one of the few SAR ab initio's but this is extremely rare and has been used as recruitment carrot for CIO to dangle to get AEOps in!!!
Nav and Airman Aircrew school visits are last thursday of the month, call Cranwell and ask for NAAS registry.
Good luck and enjoy
LAC pay is pretty low if you look at the books but Iwas actually getting about £43 a day.
As for your choices at OASC, if you want ALM and are not interested in AEOp then don't put AEOp down. That is just my opinion, I'm not sure of OASC's agenda, but it seems that the RAF is short of potential AEOp recruits and has plenty of ALM wannabes. therefore if you put AEOp and pass OASC I think you will get it, even if it is not your first choice.
As it is I am an AEOp (my third choice!!) but fortunate enough to be one of the few SAR ab initio's but this is extremely rare and has been used as recruitment carrot for CIO to dangle to get AEOps in!!!
Nav and Airman Aircrew school visits are last thursday of the month, call Cranwell and ask for NAAS registry.
Good luck and enjoy
M2Mob... not a few years ago but Many years ago now surely?
You do give the game away MSquared with the scaley yarns!
Pongoid.. do it... I had many friends in the Green lot who have made the successful transition to Blue. None of them have regretted it! The bonus is that you get to stay in longer. The Army gives you the boot at 40 which is nice!(Cheers, now sod off)
Hayfever is a stopper, as you have to be clear of symptoms for 4 years, as I found out! Mind you my 4 years of no symptoms are up now and I will be re-applying this month!
Tiger I read you post with intrest... do tell more.. whats all this single Brevet lark then? Does that mean that Cranwell can stiff you over and let you come in under the pretense that you are going to be a Loadie only to send you up Kinloss way?
You do give the game away MSquared with the scaley yarns!
Pongoid.. do it... I had many friends in the Green lot who have made the successful transition to Blue. None of them have regretted it! The bonus is that you get to stay in longer. The Army gives you the boot at 40 which is nice!(Cheers, now sod off)
Hayfever is a stopper, as you have to be clear of symptoms for 4 years, as I found out! Mind you my 4 years of no symptoms are up now and I will be re-applying this month!
Tiger I read you post with intrest... do tell more.. whats all this single Brevet lark then? Does that mean that Cranwell can stiff you over and let you come in under the pretense that you are going to be a Loadie only to send you up Kinloss way?
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Tiger_Mate,
Not true. The new single brevet does not incorporate ALMs, it only replaces the N, AE and S brevets. Nav and AEO becomes WSO, AEOp (R) becomes WSOp (EW), AEOp (S) becomes WSOp (A) and sigs becomes WSOp (L), all with the same brevet.
MadMark!!!
Single brevet (and trade) after April, no more ALM v AEOp recruitment options.
MadMark!!!
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Mad Mark
I may have misunderstood but, at the appointed time all newly qualifing RAF rear crew will wear the same brevet. Those already qualified will be entitled to wear the one they have or the new one.
Why so angry pal?
I may have misunderstood but, at the appointed time all newly qualifing RAF rear crew will wear the same brevet. Those already qualified will be entitled to wear the one they have or the new one.
Why so angry pal?
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If you what to be a Loadie apply for Loadie not aeop. However it is worth going to look at the other AA branchs as that you can explan why you dont want to be a WSO at OASC. If I was you I would get in touch with a sqn from each aircraft type and arrange a visit, sqn's love showing people about and as your serving they can take you flying. :o
Dont listen to the single brevet rubbish ALMs are not inclued in that, we keep our own brevet.
The job itself is excellent, as squidge says I also know lots of 'brown jobs' that have made the jump and I sure none of them regret it. I wouldnt be suprised if there wasnt one in at least every loadie section, ring any of the sections and they will be able to put you in touch with a ex pongo loadie. I can think of at least 3 on 47/70 Sqns alone.
Good Luck and go for it.
Dont listen to the single brevet rubbish ALMs are not inclued in that, we keep our own brevet.
The job itself is excellent, as squidge says I also know lots of 'brown jobs' that have made the jump and I sure none of them regret it. I wouldnt be suprised if there wasnt one in at least every loadie section, ring any of the sections and they will be able to put you in touch with a ex pongo loadie. I can think of at least 3 on 47/70 Sqns alone.
Good Luck and go for it.
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And..............
Once you are a Loadie, you can take you wifes dresses and mother in-laws curtains away with you a trips and get HM to dryclean them for you for free!
On trips to the far east you can get your Bodie and Doyle clothes tailored too.....then of course rapidly gain 3 stone...but still keep wearing them for another 16yrs!
Not to mention tricking unsuspecting co-pilots into drinking far too much, taking compromising photographs and haunting them for years as the become GpCapts etc
Good luck, it sure beats walking!
PS. You'll soon forget about having to dig your own shell scrape, eat rations out of a tin can and drink dirty water...instead you'll start bleating about the quality of you 5-star hotel bed, allowances and crew duty. Dont fight it!
On trips to the far east you can get your Bodie and Doyle clothes tailored too.....then of course rapidly gain 3 stone...but still keep wearing them for another 16yrs!
Not to mention tricking unsuspecting co-pilots into drinking far too much, taking compromising photographs and haunting them for years as the become GpCapts etc
Good luck, it sure beats walking!
PS. You'll soon forget about having to dig your own shell scrape, eat rations out of a tin can and drink dirty water...instead you'll start bleating about the quality of you 5-star hotel bed, allowances and crew duty. Dont fight it!
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Jungly old chap,
If he's 27 now and a gets thru selection he can wear the disco kit for another 28 years as he will probably be employed to age 55
As regards the dry cleaning now that us loadies run imprests.............. However if he had any doubt about going for it i am sure your PS will have made his mind up for sure.
The weight thing is a fair call and actually getting the co blitzed is almost a thing of the past....ish as they breed em tougher these days however camera's down route is particularly bad form
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
If he's 27 now and a gets thru selection he can wear the disco kit for another 28 years as he will probably be employed to age 55
As regards the dry cleaning now that us loadies run imprests..............
However if he had any doubt about going for it i am sure your PS will have made his mind up for sure.The weight thing is a fair call and actually getting the co blitzed is almost a thing of the past....ish as they breed em tougher these days however camera's down route is particularly bad form
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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pongoid
as for the mark time pay thing, I think it only applies to reg army/navy etc. As ex army, I went through AAITC on mark time pay, but a TA lad who had been on tour with reg units was only paid as a recuit. However if that is the case, you should only be on p**s poor wages for about six months , three of which you are in basic training cleaning bogs alnight etc.
Anyway, best of luck - the RAF's grass REALLY IS GREENER than the Army's
d1w1
as for the mark time pay thing, I think it only applies to reg army/navy etc. As ex army, I went through AAITC on mark time pay, but a TA lad who had been on tour with reg units was only paid as a recuit. However if that is the case, you should only be on p**s poor wages for about six months , three of which you are in basic training cleaning bogs alnight etc.
Anyway, best of luck - the RAF's grass REALLY IS GREENER than the Army's
d1w1
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cheers
Thanks guys
for giving me the answers to my questions and the sound advice ............... some of which i have taken ........... the porn tash and the bodie and doyle dress sense is something i'm going to have to work on ! I contacted 18 Sqn though and am going down for a fam. visit soon and hopefully i'll be able to get to a few others although the way things are going at the mo. i'm sure the crews are gonna be busy.
thanks again boys
pong !
for giving me the answers to my questions and the sound advice ............... some of which i have taken ........... the porn tash and the bodie and doyle dress sense is something i'm going to have to work on ! I contacted 18 Sqn though and am going down for a fam. visit soon and hopefully i'll be able to get to a few others although the way things are going at the mo. i'm sure the crews are gonna be busy.
thanks again boys
pong !