RAF Fitness Test
FIT TO LEAD?
Just a thought.......Whilst I agree a certain level of fitness is required in some areas of the services, would some of our most inspirational leaders have been declared fit under today's standards?
For example how would Douglas Bader have done in the mile and a half run? Also, I would love to see Lord Nelson doing a BFT in full NBCD and come to think of it an eyesight test. Also a vast amount of time/effort and money is taken up mending broken service personnel who have injured themselves during sport. Do enought to stay fit, but don't knacker yerself!!
For example how would Douglas Bader have done in the mile and a half run? Also, I would love to see Lord Nelson doing a BFT in full NBCD and come to think of it an eyesight test. Also a vast amount of time/effort and money is taken up mending broken service personnel who have injured themselves during sport. Do enought to stay fit, but don't knacker yerself!!
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I have to say, I kind of respect the PEd staff, along with the movers, coppers and Regiment.
In the face of ever declining manpower and equipment these four branches have managed to sustain and even increase their respective sizes. We, on the other hand (aircrew) have been completely unable to halt the onslaught of the powers that be in their drive to take many perks of the job away from us.
The RAF Fitness test is just another way of justifying the existence of the P Ed Flight at your local station. Everyone I know keeps themselves in a fit state to do their job; they always have. I am sure that even the very Snr Officers out there know this too.
By making us go to the gym to undertake this nonsense just makes me think less of them. If they could organize weekly five-a-side matches or competitions on our Stn then I would have much more respect for the acting corprals amongst us. If you don't do circuit training you are extremely unlikely ever to see any of them.
I have yet to see any evidence that the RAF, pre Fitness Test was broken.
In the face of ever declining manpower and equipment these four branches have managed to sustain and even increase their respective sizes. We, on the other hand (aircrew) have been completely unable to halt the onslaught of the powers that be in their drive to take many perks of the job away from us.
The RAF Fitness test is just another way of justifying the existence of the P Ed Flight at your local station. Everyone I know keeps themselves in a fit state to do their job; they always have. I am sure that even the very Snr Officers out there know this too.
By making us go to the gym to undertake this nonsense just makes me think less of them. If they could organize weekly five-a-side matches or competitions on our Stn then I would have much more respect for the acting corprals amongst us. If you don't do circuit training you are extremely unlikely ever to see any of them.
I have yet to see any evidence that the RAF, pre Fitness Test was broken.
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SET 18
It wasn't broken!! It's like stealth empire building. Does any one remember when GDT @ the Rock Office was a 3 day affair??
Common sense prevailed and so it got abolished for a one day CCS course. Far better!!
BUT what do you do with all the Rocks? Well over the years we have developed a one day IRT pre-deployment course. Of some use I have to agree.
Then we came up with IDT or "Carry on under Canvas!" The less said the better!
So the wheel turns and now we have, yes you guessed it, GDT by any other name. But spread over 3 separate days of the calendar year so section heads can't complain about loss of man-days!
The same has happened with the Aircrew Dinghy drill! All Aircrew at some point have to prove they can swim. I have a certificate to prove it issued by the Ped Staff during basic aircrew training.
So WHY then, do I have to swim 14 lengths of the pool after the Dinghy drill is completed?? In order that the Ped empire can staff it of course!!
Today gentlemen, the tail clearly wags the dog!!
We might well be short of front line, trained professional aircrew. But we will NEVER be short of people who, instead of supporting
the front line, seek only to place obstacles in our way.
It wasn't broken!! It's like stealth empire building. Does any one remember when GDT @ the Rock Office was a 3 day affair??
Common sense prevailed and so it got abolished for a one day CCS course. Far better!!
BUT what do you do with all the Rocks? Well over the years we have developed a one day IRT pre-deployment course. Of some use I have to agree.
Then we came up with IDT or "Carry on under Canvas!" The less said the better!
So the wheel turns and now we have, yes you guessed it, GDT by any other name. But spread over 3 separate days of the calendar year so section heads can't complain about loss of man-days!
The same has happened with the Aircrew Dinghy drill! All Aircrew at some point have to prove they can swim. I have a certificate to prove it issued by the Ped Staff during basic aircrew training.
So WHY then, do I have to swim 14 lengths of the pool after the Dinghy drill is completed?? In order that the Ped empire can staff it of course!!
Today gentlemen, the tail clearly wags the dog!!
We might well be short of front line, trained professional aircrew. But we will NEVER be short of people who, instead of supporting
the front line, seek only to place obstacles in our way.
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Guys.....
Everyone hates fitness, it's a bloody nause to be groaning and sweating, whilst some bone bloke in a PTI vest is getting his jollies beasting you.
But from what I remember, the most critical part of an E+E is getting away from the location the other side know you're at, as quickly as possible.
...and if the difference between tea and medals, and a quick filling in kebabside is the ability to jog/run for a mile without too much distress, then surely it's worth it, if only from the self-preservation point of view?
Royal makes some very good points, as do the Aircrew. Disciplined regimented fitness is not what is sought. So why not try cycle polo (excellent laff) or 5 a-side footy,Squash or just any other sports activity, that's fun to do.
The baseline is..... Do some exercise, increase your aerobic efficiency, live longer. If you're panting after climbing into the office, you have a problem.
I'm sure the Missus and the Kids would be happier if you did too
Everyone hates fitness, it's a bloody nause to be groaning and sweating, whilst some bone bloke in a PTI vest is getting his jollies beasting you.
But from what I remember, the most critical part of an E+E is getting away from the location the other side know you're at, as quickly as possible.
...and if the difference between tea and medals, and a quick filling in kebabside is the ability to jog/run for a mile without too much distress, then surely it's worth it, if only from the self-preservation point of view?
Royal makes some very good points, as do the Aircrew. Disciplined regimented fitness is not what is sought. So why not try cycle polo (excellent laff) or 5 a-side footy,Squash or just any other sports activity, that's fun to do.
The baseline is..... Do some exercise, increase your aerobic efficiency, live longer. If you're panting after climbing into the office, you have a problem.
I'm sure the Missus and the Kids would be happier if you did too
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I know its time to get down the gym and do some fitness when I cannot do my trousers up anymore and have trouble pulling the birds..ahem. Agree that there should be certain level of fitness in the RAF, personal pride is one good reason. In my previous job we did some work with some punchy fit people, our liason officer was a fat wheezing sweaty pig, felt embarassed to be in the same uniform (not literally). As for the swimming test I have been aircrew for over 11 years attempted it about 10 times and passed twice, on one of those occasions I cheated. Going to the gym can be okay, I am a member of gym where there is plenty of "scenery" to look at whilst having a cardiac on the treadmill. 
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Well, I was always able to fly my VC10 to and fro where it needed to go even though I was never a jockstrapper. The only time I ever missed a flight was after injuring myself committing sport!
My theory was:
Chances of surviving the crash after being shot down - almost nil.
However,:
Likelihood of starving to death afterwards - nil (I can use my flab reserves!).
Performance of fat as an insulator in very cold water - good.
Likelihood of holding out against Spetnaz interrogation - naff all (fit or fat - no chance).
Ok, so you have to be fit enough for the body systems to hold out in flight, but as has already been said, medically fit and physically fit are two different things. War in the air is about your brain - not how well developed your pecs are.
Anyway, if you are good at sport you are never available for your squadron (ask Rory Underwood).
My theory was:
Chances of surviving the crash after being shot down - almost nil.
However,:
Likelihood of starving to death afterwards - nil (I can use my flab reserves!).
Performance of fat as an insulator in very cold water - good.
Likelihood of holding out against Spetnaz interrogation - naff all (fit or fat - no chance).
Ok, so you have to be fit enough for the body systems to hold out in flight, but as has already been said, medically fit and physically fit are two different things. War in the air is about your brain - not how well developed your pecs are.
Anyway, if you are good at sport you are never available for your squadron (ask Rory Underwood).
Well Im afraid that the Lesser Spotted ADUX (AY EN AY EL) has a very valid and emotive thread going on here chaps!
Its a case of those who don't really give a rats arse about their body and fitness come along and slag off those who do!
Some of the fat bodies in the RAF are a disgrace to the service, and there are many of them.
The RAF is not a fighting force in the sense of two sandbags forward, bags of smoke and no retreat and all that!!
But..... Its still and armed service and has a duty to the country to field the best men capable for the job. The USAF has done mucho research on this subject and found that the fitter pilots are the more alert and better suited to the job they become!
There is a lot of ill feeling amongst many aircrew toward personal fitness and its a disgrace. Too much emphasis on getting swilled up all the time! You should have left that back in your teens at University. Its time to grow up and show some respect for the job you do and get off your LARD AR*ES and get fit.
Leaders of men I think not!! And most of you drivers need to remember why you are there in the first place.. To deliver whats down the back or allow others to carry out the task on arrival at your destination. Too many think that they are the pivitol pin in all matters... no excuse, get fit Blue'ies
Its a case of those who don't really give a rats arse about their body and fitness come along and slag off those who do!
Some of the fat bodies in the RAF are a disgrace to the service, and there are many of them.
The RAF is not a fighting force in the sense of two sandbags forward, bags of smoke and no retreat and all that!!
But..... Its still and armed service and has a duty to the country to field the best men capable for the job. The USAF has done mucho research on this subject and found that the fitter pilots are the more alert and better suited to the job they become!
There is a lot of ill feeling amongst many aircrew toward personal fitness and its a disgrace. Too much emphasis on getting swilled up all the time! You should have left that back in your teens at University. Its time to grow up and show some respect for the job you do and get off your LARD AR*ES and get fit.
Leaders of men I think not!! And most of you drivers need to remember why you are there in the first place.. To deliver whats down the back or allow others to carry out the task on arrival at your destination. Too many think that they are the pivitol pin in all matters... no excuse, get fit Blue'ies
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Grimweasel, thankyou for your reference to my anatomical orifice!
The main thrust of my thread is not so much that I think 'front enders' should be P Company fit, rather that there should be a base level of fitness higher than is currently the case. True, there is not the requirement to have the same level of fitness as the line infantry, however, I believe the RAF fitness test should be a shade more demanding. It is reasonable to say that a moderately active individual could breeze the test with little preparation, however, it does not necessarily gauge an individual's ability to cope with the 'highly unlikely' E & E scenario.
The fitness issue is not the only thing that prompted my rather cutting and maybe rash comments earlier. I was in conversation with a Captain of a rather large aircraft recently who said "if we were bought down then it would be every man for himself". I do not for a moment sugest that that is the attitude of all aircrew, but it did touch a raw nerve and does nothing to promote a 'purple' environment.
I do not believe that the RAF should be breeding super athletes as has been alluded to in some of the posts but I do think more emphasis should be placed on fitness, as unpalatable as it may sound to some.
The main thrust of my thread is not so much that I think 'front enders' should be P Company fit, rather that there should be a base level of fitness higher than is currently the case. True, there is not the requirement to have the same level of fitness as the line infantry, however, I believe the RAF fitness test should be a shade more demanding. It is reasonable to say that a moderately active individual could breeze the test with little preparation, however, it does not necessarily gauge an individual's ability to cope with the 'highly unlikely' E & E scenario.
The fitness issue is not the only thing that prompted my rather cutting and maybe rash comments earlier. I was in conversation with a Captain of a rather large aircraft recently who said "if we were bought down then it would be every man for himself". I do not for a moment sugest that that is the attitude of all aircrew, but it did touch a raw nerve and does nothing to promote a 'purple' environment.
I do not believe that the RAF should be breeding super athletes as has been alluded to in some of the posts but I do think more emphasis should be placed on fitness, as unpalatable as it may sound to some.
Oh dear Grimweasel,why don't you wanabees pyss off to the 'I'm hard because I'm fit' forum and let us military aircrew get back to discussing things that we're interested in
Last edited by Specaircrew; 9th Oct 2002 at 17:59.
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Grimweasel - I totally disagree with:
"Its a case of those who don't really give a rats arse about their body and fitness come along and slag off those who do! "
I think its the other way round. Its the fitness fanatics telling the others that they have to be like them. The "others" are just happy with their lifestyle and happy to get on with their job.
Personally, I think a reasonable fitness level is good for lots of reasons (already well covered) - but I'm not forcing my views on everyone else.
On the excessive fitness thing - high aerobic fitness decreases your g tolerance. This is a well known fact. The USAF certainly used to, and I think still does, ban extreme aerobic fitness for its high performance fighter pilots. By extreme I mean long distance running training etc. They have done this because people have died after g-loc ing and crashing. That's more important than looking good. I don't think this applies to the RAF because at the moment we don't have any 9g aircraft.
Fitness fanatics - chill out!
"Its a case of those who don't really give a rats arse about their body and fitness come along and slag off those who do! "
I think its the other way round. Its the fitness fanatics telling the others that they have to be like them. The "others" are just happy with their lifestyle and happy to get on with their job.
Personally, I think a reasonable fitness level is good for lots of reasons (already well covered) - but I'm not forcing my views on everyone else.
On the excessive fitness thing - high aerobic fitness decreases your g tolerance. This is a well known fact. The USAF certainly used to, and I think still does, ban extreme aerobic fitness for its high performance fighter pilots. By extreme I mean long distance running training etc. They have done this because people have died after g-loc ing and crashing. That's more important than looking good. I don't think this applies to the RAF because at the moment we don't have any 9g aircraft.
Fitness fanatics - chill out!
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Nose G
I know what you are saying with the USAF banning high aerobic fittness but it is along the lines of being able to run 10 miles or more which is more than most people can do. A good combo of running and weight training is best for G tolerance
SOTBest
If you do find yourself in the company of a Mid East type smiling and winking at you. My advise is don't wipe your arse. They apparently find that a real turn off
I know what you are saying with the USAF banning high aerobic fittness but it is along the lines of being able to run 10 miles or more which is more than most people can do. A good combo of running and weight training is best for G tolerance
SOTBest
If you do find yourself in the company of a Mid East type smiling and winking at you. My advise is don't wipe your arse. They apparently find that a real turn off
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Guys,
I think you all have valid points. If you exercise and are fit, it's good for you. if you are a lard-bucket, then that's o.k by me. We only have so many heartbeats in a life-time, after all. Quite frankly, I'm happy doing an hour of exercise (when I can fit it in, because I know we are ALL short staffed) because:
1. I feel better.
2. I eel I look better (Controversial, I know!)
3. when the boss who's a lard-bucket has his heart attack and pops his clogs, those of us who have a regular but not excesive exercise regime will be looking to be promoted into his appointment.
Exercise is a very personal matter, and I hope(and I'm going be controversial again) that my self discipline and pride in what I do keeps me trying to keep fit ahead of the rest.
I think you all have valid points. If you exercise and are fit, it's good for you. if you are a lard-bucket, then that's o.k by me. We only have so many heartbeats in a life-time, after all. Quite frankly, I'm happy doing an hour of exercise (when I can fit it in, because I know we are ALL short staffed) because:
1. I feel better.
2. I eel I look better (Controversial, I know!)
3. when the boss who's a lard-bucket has his heart attack and pops his clogs, those of us who have a regular but not excesive exercise regime will be looking to be promoted into his appointment.
Exercise is a very personal matter, and I hope(and I'm going be controversial again) that my self discipline and pride in what I do keeps me trying to keep fit ahead of the rest.
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You RAF chaps shouldn't be worrying about personal fitness. Chill out have another piece of pie and spend the time reading an Arabic phrase book- Looking for the phrase "Nice Arab man please stop playing hide the sausage".
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Hey:
If the Squads have to do BFT then so should the Crabs/ Fishheads. I do suspect that the RAF need Beret reshaping lessons, a CB on your head wins great street cred in front of RM/ PARA forces.
If the Squads have to do BFT then so should the Crabs/ Fishheads. I do suspect that the RAF need Beret reshaping lessons, a CB on your head wins great street cred in front of RM/ PARA forces.
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How about we all get along and embrace both sides of the argument with the introduction of the following....
6 Pints of Guiness (minimum), followed by a 5 mile run and then a jolly good spin in the 'fuge.
Its been tried and there is an enjoyable element for everyone, well almost.
6 Pints of Guiness (minimum), followed by a 5 mile run and then a jolly good spin in the 'fuge.
Its been tried and there is an enjoyable element for everyone, well almost.
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Silly question, but what does the RAF's annual physical fitness "test" actually test? Its not my fitness to do the job, because someone of my age and sex in a different branch has to do exactly the same test, whilst someone older than me, or of a different sex in the same job and on the same squadron can be nearly four levels below me on the bleep test... Just a thought.
Apologies if someone has already asked.
Apologies if someone has already asked.
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An outsiders point of view...
I've not read all of the responses on this topic, but I thought I'd give my opinions anyway.
I have some experience as a pilot (ex UAS, and a PPL), and also work in aviation research. Although not directly involved with the exercise / biomechanics side of things, my work does involve ejection injuries, and g-tolerance.
Ok, so this area relates just to the fast jet pilots, but your physical fitness (I use this term loosely to cover CV fitness, strength etc) can play a big part in these areas.
IMO the RAF fitness test should be at a higher standard. Both for the reasons already mentioned about "what if you get shot down and have to evade the enemy" type situations, but also so that you are more capable of performing your daily role. Flying in a high g environment is tiring, I'm sure many of you would admit that. The onset of this fatigue can be put back a fair way with an increased level of fitness though.
I think the best way to improve the fitness level would be to have a compulsory training regime that pilot should follow. Weight training should be included in this, including back-strength weight training to help support the spine in the event of an ejection. General CV fitness should also play a part to improve the condition of your heart and lungs.
Probably the best way to increase the fitness levels in the RAF would be to put the beer prices up in the mess though.
I see someone mentioned the bleep test. Can anyone tell me what are the actual levels you have to get to on the bleep test to pass the annual fitness test?
As for why different people in different roles do the same fitness test, that is because the bleep test is a fairly good test of CV fitness. It is a "progressive and maximal" test, and as such it is quite easy to perform as you don't have to warm up before, and everyone will be able to get a score on the test because it starts at a low speed. It's not perfect, but I don't think there are many other fitness tests out there that perform the role better.
I have some experience as a pilot (ex UAS, and a PPL), and also work in aviation research. Although not directly involved with the exercise / biomechanics side of things, my work does involve ejection injuries, and g-tolerance.
Ok, so this area relates just to the fast jet pilots, but your physical fitness (I use this term loosely to cover CV fitness, strength etc) can play a big part in these areas.
IMO the RAF fitness test should be at a higher standard. Both for the reasons already mentioned about "what if you get shot down and have to evade the enemy" type situations, but also so that you are more capable of performing your daily role. Flying in a high g environment is tiring, I'm sure many of you would admit that. The onset of this fatigue can be put back a fair way with an increased level of fitness though.
I think the best way to improve the fitness level would be to have a compulsory training regime that pilot should follow. Weight training should be included in this, including back-strength weight training to help support the spine in the event of an ejection. General CV fitness should also play a part to improve the condition of your heart and lungs.
Probably the best way to increase the fitness levels in the RAF would be to put the beer prices up in the mess though.
I see someone mentioned the bleep test. Can anyone tell me what are the actual levels you have to get to on the bleep test to pass the annual fitness test?
As for why different people in different roles do the same fitness test, that is because the bleep test is a fairly good test of CV fitness. It is a "progressive and maximal" test, and as such it is quite easy to perform as you don't have to warm up before, and everyone will be able to get a score on the test because it starts at a low speed. It's not perfect, but I don't think there are many other fitness tests out there that perform the role better.
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I find it amazing that when you crabs do your annual beep test in the gym, you have to stop once you've reached your age dependant level.
I asked gym staff why that is and was told that it was for "health and safety"! Three words that as yet haven't made it into an Army Gym.
when you mention fitness being a function of ones job, you also have to question why do the FAA do a mile and a half run when they fly (NOTE: the same aircraft as you Blue jobs) off ships?
I feel that the reason you Blue jobs dont do a run as such, is that most of you are as bolshy as Andy Bl**dy Gilchrist!
lastly I wonder how many of you that argue that you shouldn't run etc are lardy "busting the zip on your flying suit" slobs?
Let battle commence!
I asked gym staff why that is and was told that it was for "health and safety"! Three words that as yet haven't made it into an Army Gym.
when you mention fitness being a function of ones job, you also have to question why do the FAA do a mile and a half run when they fly (NOTE: the same aircraft as you Blue jobs) off ships?
I feel that the reason you Blue jobs dont do a run as such, is that most of you are as bolshy as Andy Bl**dy Gilchrist!
lastly I wonder how many of you that argue that you shouldn't run etc are lardy "busting the zip on your flying suit" slobs?
Let battle commence!
As one who has to have 2 ECGs and 3 medicals every year (ECGs for RAF and CAA, annual PME plus 2 x JAA Class 1 medicals), personally I trust the medical officers' professional opinions regarding fitness for employment.
My personal opinion not intended to represent any official view, of course.....
My personal opinion not intended to represent any official view, of course.....