KC-135 reported down in Iraq.

[tdracer]

Do we know enough about this particular mid-air to determine if bailing out was even remotely possible? Because nothing in the news reports I've seen saying anything about aspect.
If the aircraft was out of control after the impact - all this arguing about parachutes becomes a pretty much moot point.

[EXDAC]

"The 600 or so pounds that was ejected from the plane may have been the saving grace for the plane. "

Perhaps someone could explain that comment.

Glide ratio is not changed by change in aircraft mass. Only the speed for best, and any other, glide ratio changes with mass.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by tdracer

Do we know enough about this particular mid-air to determine if bailing out was even remotely possible? Because nothing in the news reports I've seen saying anything about aspect.

If the aircraft was out of control after the impact - all this arguing about parachutes becomes a pretty much moot point.

It does indeed, well said.

[EXDAC]

Originally Posted by tdracer

If the aircraft was out of control after the impact - all this arguing about parachutes becomes a pretty much moot point.

Perhaps you are the only person with any connection to, or interest in, aviation who has not seen archival footage of crews bailing out of a spinning B-17.

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by EXDAC

Perhaps you are the only person with any connection to, or interest in, aviation who has not seen archival footage of crews bailing out of a spinning B-17.

KC-135's tend to travel a bit faster than a B-17 - even one that's out of control.
Quite a bit higher g-forces involved in an out-of-control KC-135 as well...

[GlobalNav]

Originally Posted by tdracer

KC-135's tend to travel a bit faster than a B-17 - even one that's out of control.
Quite a bit higher g-forces involved in an out-of-control KC-135 as well...

Don’t jets tend to have ejection seats to enable successful bailout? The B-52 for example.

[helispotter]

Originally Posted by EXDAC

"The 600 or so pounds that was ejected from the plane may have been the saving grace for the plane. "

Perhaps someone could explain that comment.

Glide ratio is not changed by change in aircraft mass. Only the speed for best, and any other, glide ratio changes with mass.

That August 1969 accident doesn't appear yet in the ASN Wikibase.

To add to EXDAC observations, drag would have increased slightly due to the ejected door so glide ratio likely reduced. Perhaps instructional pilot was correct that there was no emergency and they could have glided right into the airstrip!!

[fdr]

No matter the differences, the impact of this excursion is a human tragedy that appears most on the leaders on all sides.

You Tube

[Load Toad]

Originally Posted by GlobalNav

Don’t jets tend to have ejection seats to enable successful bailout? The B-52 for example.

Imagine the added weight, cost and complexity, maintenance of ejection seats & such for all crew in a refuelling tanker....seats which would most likely never be used

[ORAC]

Built in the day when tankers were never expected to get within 1000nm of the enemy, so no more need for seats than any other transport aircraft.

Now, in the day of 150nm+ missiles and fighters in large A2/AD areas and dedicated anti-HVA fighters that may have to be reconsidered - hence the pause and reconsideration of what is wanted for the KC-Z competition.

Regardless this seems to be a non-enemy action, non-AAR accident, just an unfortunate mid-air due to a number of possible reasons (ACO design/GPS jamming/navigation?) so the discussion of which aircraft types need seats is moot.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Load Toad

Imagine the added weight, cost and complexity, maintenance of ejection seats & such for all crew in a refuelling tanker....seats which would most likely never be used

Nobody is suggesting that, as fas as I can see.

The ejection seat reference was simply to illustrate that you can't realistically draw parallels with a B-17.

[bille1319]

Parachutes were removed from the tankers 20 years ago. The servicing and upkeep requires a tremendous amount of resources and time and the bale-out system wasnt really viable in practice.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by bille1319

Parachutes were removed from the tankers 20 years ago. The servicing and upkeep requires a tremendous amount of resources and time and the bale-out system wasnt really viable in practice.

Yes, you will find plenty of discussion around those issues earlier in the thread.

[megan]

Crew of the tanker, Salute From left, Tech. Sgt. Ashley B. Pruitt, 34, of Bardstown, Ky., Capt. Ariana G. Savino (Chief of Current Operations Pilot at the 99th Air Refueling Squadron), 31, of Covington, Wash.; and Maj. John A. (Alex) Klinner, 33, of Auburn.




The other aircraft

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by megan

Crew of the tanker, Salute From left, Tech. Sgt. Ashley B. Pruitt, 34, of Bardstown, Ky., Capt. Ariana G. Savino (Chief of Current Operations Pilot at the 99th Air Refueling Squadron), 31, of Covington, Wash.; and Maj. John A. (Alex) Klinner, 33, of Auburn.

Not forgetting the other three crew members who also died:

Capt. Seth R. Koval, 38, of Mooresville, Ind., Capt. Curtis J. Angst, 30, of Wilmington, Ohio; and Tech. Sgt. Tyler H. Simmons, 28, of Columbus, Ohio.