Britain considers Israel-style ‘Iron Dome’ for missile defence
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Britain considers Israel-style ‘Iron Dome’ for missile defence
Article in The Times.
Well, at least someone is thinking about it...
Chief of the defence staff reveals ‘live conversations’ on how Britain can shield itself from growing threats.British defence chiefs are having “live conversations” about developing an “Iron Dome” missile defence system, the head of the armed forces has said.
Admiral Sir Tony Radakin, the chief of the defence staff, revealed that discussions were taking place about how best to protect the country from attack.
Israel’s short-range Iron Dome system is the world’s best-known interceptor system and has proved vital against incoming rockets, saving thousands of lives.
The Iron Dome is designed to shoot down projectiles with help from a radar that detects rockets and calculates their threat level. It has destroyed thousands of incoming rockets fired by Iran and militant groups in Gaza and southern Lebanon.
Penny Mordaunt, the leader of the Commons, and James Heappey, the former armed forces minister, have called for Rishi Sunak to install an Iron Dome-style missile defence system for the UK.
Asked if the UK needed such a system, Radakin told Andrew Marr on LBC: “That will be needed in the future, that’s a live conversation. We’ve got certain capabilities at the moment that help to protect the UK and to help our forces when they’re stationed abroad. We don’t have the same kind of system that Israel has, but we don’t live in the same type of neighbourhood that Israel lives in. So, that’s why it’s very different. And we also are part of this big alliance.
“But when you look at the threats that are out there, far more longer-range missiles, far more longer-range one-way attack drones, much easier ways of delivering those — that’s why we’ve got various initiatives, both for ourselves as the UK but also with our European allies, about how we might better defend ourselves in the future, conscious that those threats are probably going to increase.”
Military chiefs in the UK have been discussing ways the military could defend the country from similar missile attacks in future, especially from hypersonic weapons being developed by Russia and China.
Some intelligence experts believe that the way to stop advanced weaponry will be to take out the bases from which they are fired because by the time they are in the sky it could be too late. It is understood spies inside defence intelligence are examining possible targets for future wars.
However, the UK is also looking at building up its capabilities to defend the skies at home once missiles are already on their way. Experts at the Royal United Services Institute said in a recent report that air defence had been a low priority for European Nato nations for decades because they have had uncontested air superiority.
At present the Ministry of Defence relies on the Royal Navy’s six Type 45 Destroyers to shoot missiles out of sky, although in recent years many of them have been out of action for prolonged periods for maintenance or repair.
Others are often deployed overseas. HMS Diamond has been in the Red Seadefending ships from drones and missiles fired by Houthi rebels based in Yemen.
RAF aircraft can also provide defences against cruise and some ballistic missiles at home but such assets are likely to be overstretched during wartime.
Grant Shapps, the defence secretary, said this week that a new DragonFire laser system could be deployed in the UK to defend from incoming threats. The laser system, which can shoot down drones and missiles and even defeat enemy sensors, is expected to enter service in three years.
Radakin also revealed that Ukraine was set to increase long-range attacks inside Russia as it received new weapons from the West. He told the Financial Timesthat an influx of military aid would aim to help Kyiv shape the war “in much stronger ways”.
“As Ukraine gains more capabilities for the long-range fight … its ability to continue deep operations will [increasingly] become a feature” of the war, Radakin said. “They definitely have an effect.”
Admiral Sir Tony Radakin, the chief of the defence staff, revealed that discussions were taking place about how best to protect the country from attack.
Israel’s short-range Iron Dome system is the world’s best-known interceptor system and has proved vital against incoming rockets, saving thousands of lives.
The Iron Dome is designed to shoot down projectiles with help from a radar that detects rockets and calculates their threat level. It has destroyed thousands of incoming rockets fired by Iran and militant groups in Gaza and southern Lebanon.
Penny Mordaunt, the leader of the Commons, and James Heappey, the former armed forces minister, have called for Rishi Sunak to install an Iron Dome-style missile defence system for the UK.
Asked if the UK needed such a system, Radakin told Andrew Marr on LBC: “That will be needed in the future, that’s a live conversation. We’ve got certain capabilities at the moment that help to protect the UK and to help our forces when they’re stationed abroad. We don’t have the same kind of system that Israel has, but we don’t live in the same type of neighbourhood that Israel lives in. So, that’s why it’s very different. And we also are part of this big alliance.
“But when you look at the threats that are out there, far more longer-range missiles, far more longer-range one-way attack drones, much easier ways of delivering those — that’s why we’ve got various initiatives, both for ourselves as the UK but also with our European allies, about how we might better defend ourselves in the future, conscious that those threats are probably going to increase.”
Military chiefs in the UK have been discussing ways the military could defend the country from similar missile attacks in future, especially from hypersonic weapons being developed by Russia and China.
Some intelligence experts believe that the way to stop advanced weaponry will be to take out the bases from which they are fired because by the time they are in the sky it could be too late. It is understood spies inside defence intelligence are examining possible targets for future wars.
However, the UK is also looking at building up its capabilities to defend the skies at home once missiles are already on their way. Experts at the Royal United Services Institute said in a recent report that air defence had been a low priority for European Nato nations for decades because they have had uncontested air superiority.
At present the Ministry of Defence relies on the Royal Navy’s six Type 45 Destroyers to shoot missiles out of sky, although in recent years many of them have been out of action for prolonged periods for maintenance or repair.
Others are often deployed overseas. HMS Diamond has been in the Red Seadefending ships from drones and missiles fired by Houthi rebels based in Yemen.
RAF aircraft can also provide defences against cruise and some ballistic missiles at home but such assets are likely to be overstretched during wartime.
Grant Shapps, the defence secretary, said this week that a new DragonFire laser system could be deployed in the UK to defend from incoming threats. The laser system, which can shoot down drones and missiles and even defeat enemy sensors, is expected to enter service in three years.
Radakin also revealed that Ukraine was set to increase long-range attacks inside Russia as it received new weapons from the West. He told the Financial Timesthat an influx of military aid would aim to help Kyiv shape the war “in much stronger ways”.
“As Ukraine gains more capabilities for the long-range fight … its ability to continue deep operations will [increasingly] become a feature” of the war, Radakin said. “They definitely have an effect.”
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But we will still withdraw the Tranche 1 Typhoons from service.
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No doubt it will be over London…
We cannot even stop a bunch of migrants in rubber boats, so how they intend to stop a sustained massive drone and missile attack from foreign powers on us is beyond me
By the time the MOD, Treasury and Ministers have finished with it, the Iron Dome will probably be a Tin Colander.
We cannot even stop a bunch of migrants in rubber boats, so how they intend to stop a sustained massive drone and missile attack from foreign powers on us is beyond me
By the time the MOD, Treasury and Ministers have finished with it, the Iron Dome will probably be a Tin Colander.
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No doubt it will be over London…
We cannot even stop a bunch of migrants in rubber boats, so how they intend to stop a sustained massive drone and missile attack from foreign powers on us is beyond me
By the time the MOD, Treasury and Ministers have finished with it, the Iron Dome will probably be a Tin Colander.
We cannot even stop a bunch of migrants in rubber boats, so how they intend to stop a sustained massive drone and missile attack from foreign powers on us is beyond me
By the time the MOD, Treasury and Ministers have finished with it, the Iron Dome will probably be a Tin Colander.
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No doubt it will be over London…
We cannot even stop a bunch of migrants in rubber boats, so how they intend to stop a sustained massive drone and missile attack from foreign powers on us is beyond me
By the time the MOD, Treasury and Ministers have finished with it, the Iron Dome will probably be a Tin Colander.
We cannot even stop a bunch of migrants in rubber boats, so how they intend to stop a sustained massive drone and missile attack from foreign powers on us is beyond me
By the time the MOD, Treasury and Ministers have finished with it, the Iron Dome will probably be a Tin Colander.
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You cannot rely on having high tech solutions to a problem when there could well be low tech problems already living amongst us through a failure to enforce our borders.
A dirty bomb containing radioactive substances in the underground would be pushed through London and dispersed into the atmosphere via all the cooling ducts etc.
That’s what I am trying to say, a bunch of zealots running around the country with the minimum of equipment could cause mayhem, look at what is happening in Russia.
Imagine in the U.K. attaching time delayed charges on pylons all over the country, or even cutting through the legs of pylons, you could black out large areas, and how would you guard every pylon? That sort of stuff.
Maybe it is far fetched, but then again maybe it isn’t.
There is more than one way to skin a cat…
Just saying
…
Last edited by NutLoose; 25th Apr 2024 at 19:18.
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It's a lofty ambition, but won't survive first contact with the civil service.
We have more chance of Aberdeen City Council putting a man on Mars by 2025 than we have of fielding anything close to the Iron Dome without it taking 35 years, being cancelled 3 times, downscaled to just cover London and parts of Kent and costing 8 NHS's in budget.
We have more chance of Aberdeen City Council putting a man on Mars by 2025 than we have of fielding anything close to the Iron Dome without it taking 35 years, being cancelled 3 times, downscaled to just cover London and parts of Kent and costing 8 NHS's in budget.
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Wouldn’t it be sensible to just have point defence systems to protect power stations, water plants , etc? I imagine that a few days of power cuts and no water would have the UK population on the streets demanding surrender.
Iron Dome works for Israel because Israel is a tiny country with a large number of military cripples sending bottle rockets at concentrated population centers and is paid for by the USA and backed by the US Navy and Air Force.
I'd suggest a return to the Sprint missile system as a more impressive ABM. 0 to Mach 10 in 5 seconds (some say 15 seconds) ? Launch weight of 7,700 pounds? A nuclear warhead to poison the incoming nuclear warhead with neutrons? What is not to like?
I'd suggest a return to the Sprint missile system as a more impressive ABM. 0 to Mach 10 in 5 seconds (some say 15 seconds) ? Launch weight of 7,700 pounds? A nuclear warhead to poison the incoming nuclear warhead with neutrons? What is not to like?
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The problem there is with foreign ownership they could probably simply shut them down remotely, hence why critical infrastructure should remain in U.K. ownership.
And the cost - l see Tusa's letter in the Times this week
Sir, Given the interest in the air defence of the UK (letters, Apr 20), sober consideration of the costs for our own Iron Dome is warranted. A good comparison is a similar shield procured by Qatar, which has cost well over $25 billion. Such a multi-layer system would provide coverage for London, southeast England and East Anglia. To cover even the basic military vital facilities, there would have to be an extra system for southwest England and Wales (Devonport naval base), and another for the central belt in Scotland (Faslane submarine base). Hence, the cost would be at least £60 billion. Israel and its allies shot down 99 per cent of the Iranian missiles/rockets fired. At present, 99 per cent of such an attack would get through to hit UK targets, with unknown (but high) economic costs.
Francis Tusa
Editor, Defence Analysis
Sir, Given the interest in the air defence of the UK (letters, Apr 20), sober consideration of the costs for our own Iron Dome is warranted. A good comparison is a similar shield procured by Qatar, which has cost well over $25 billion. Such a multi-layer system would provide coverage for London, southeast England and East Anglia. To cover even the basic military vital facilities, there would have to be an extra system for southwest England and Wales (Devonport naval base), and another for the central belt in Scotland (Faslane submarine base). Hence, the cost would be at least £60 billion. Israel and its allies shot down 99 per cent of the Iranian missiles/rockets fired. At present, 99 per cent of such an attack would get through to hit UK targets, with unknown (but high) economic costs.
Francis Tusa
Editor, Defence Analysis
And the cost - l see Tusa's letter in the Times this week
Sir, Given the interest in the air defence of the UK (letters, Apr 20), sober consideration of the costs for our own Iron Dome is warranted. A good comparison is a similar shield procured by Qatar, which has cost well over $25 billion. Such a multi-layer system would provide coverage for London, southeast England and East Anglia. To cover even the basic military vital facilities, there would have to be an extra system for southwest England and Wales (Devonport naval base), and another for the central belt in Scotland (Faslane submarine base). Hence, the cost would be at least £60 billion. Israel and its allies shot down 99 per cent of the Iranian missiles/rockets fired. At present, 99 per cent of such an attack would get through to hit UK targets, with unknown (but high) economic costs.
Francis Tusa
Editor, Defence Analysis
Sir, Given the interest in the air defence of the UK (letters, Apr 20), sober consideration of the costs for our own Iron Dome is warranted. A good comparison is a similar shield procured by Qatar, which has cost well over $25 billion. Such a multi-layer system would provide coverage for London, southeast England and East Anglia. To cover even the basic military vital facilities, there would have to be an extra system for southwest England and Wales (Devonport naval base), and another for the central belt in Scotland (Faslane submarine base). Hence, the cost would be at least £60 billion. Israel and its allies shot down 99 per cent of the Iranian missiles/rockets fired. At present, 99 per cent of such an attack would get through to hit UK targets, with unknown (but high) economic costs.
Francis Tusa
Editor, Defence Analysis
Anything is better than nothing though. I just wonder if we ensured that whatever system we had was mobile enough that we could use it to help protect our allies - perhaps we might stop a lot of things from ever reaching us. e.g. helping Ukraine now is much less than 60 billion pounds but it keeps the problem far away from us.
I thought that Iran overwhelmed Iron Dome with cheap, fairly useless stuff and then sent in the real attack? So the 99% is something of a distraction.
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And of course how would they pay for this... Ohh.. the defence budget, that would wipe out the increase and no doubt probably more..
Even if Iron Dome was the answer (there are other capabilities that could provide a more affordable answer) who is going to deliver it?
DE&S are moving the deck chairs again (3rd significant re-org in a decade) and their capacity to deliver anything is now questionable….
DE&S are moving the deck chairs again (3rd significant re-org in a decade) and their capacity to deliver anything is now questionable….
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
I recall when we withdrew Bloodhound in about 1991 it was because we were going to buy MSAM - ie patriot. Then we took the saving instead
The whole lot was withdrawn the year after the final NATO cheque cleared….
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/thr...18/post-355997
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
There is also project LEWIS (from the island...?) for a new long range radar. UK has been authorized by to procure the Long Range Discrimination Radar already in 2022; last date we were given for operational was 2029 but it's one of those projects you don't hear much about.
LRDR:
https://news.lockheedmartin.com/2024...ign=LRDR-DD250
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...-defence-radar
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/brit...efence-system/
LRDR:
https://news.lockheedmartin.com/2024...ign=LRDR-DD250
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...-defence-radar
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/brit...efence-system/
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