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COLD WAR VETERANS

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Old 6th Feb 2024, 12:33
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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An interesting discussion and it is good to see that it has evolved into a more mature discussion that those first few posts, with individuals decrying the efforts of others.

Not everyone sat on an aerodrome in Germany, drinking pilsner. Many others spent months away from families, often in horrendous weather, hunting submarines (big up the MPA force), protecting the nuclear deterrent, trying to shake off Russian AGIs, flying, like Mog at sea, at night, without a diversion and sat in ships getting buzzed by Russian MPAs. Submariners, who closed the hatch in Scotland and opened it again, 3 months later in Scotland. Yes we got paid and fed (until pay as you starve) and many of us benefit from a good pension but, I do feel that the sacrifices of that generation should be recognised. When I joined, most only had 1 medal and that was if they had been down south in 1982. Well deserved. There were the odd DSOs etc, mostly submariners. Before Afghanistan, there were a few Admirals and senior officers with no medals despite their service of merit.

I spent 25 years in, was sat in the Gulf in 1992 whilst Saddam was still kicking off , worked supporting Deny Flight (Bosnia) helping to prevent genocide, took part in supporting our allies in the South China Sea, undertook anti drug patrols and lots of other stuff and all I have to show for it was a Golden Jubilee Medal (for which I am grateful) but which was such a low bar for award. If those who had never stepped in harms way but just served for 5 years could get a Jubilee medal (including various flavours since) or sit in Cyprus during GWI/II , why not recognition for those who helped keep Europe safe, a story that is only just being told. You only have to look and see what is happening in Ukraine to realise the threat that was kept at bay by our combined strength. I for one have signed the petition, 20 years to qualify I suggest.
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 12:40
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Many others spent months away from families, often in horrendous weather, hunting submarines (big up the MPA force), protecting the nuclear deterrent, trying to shake off Russian AGIs, flying, like Mog at sea, at night, without a diversion and sat in ships getting buzzed by Russian MPAs. Submariners, who closed the hatch in Scotland and opened it again, 3 months later in Scotland.
None of this was unique to the Cold War (the subject of this thread). Service personnel are doing all of this today, so what medal would you recommend for them - Cold War 2.0? All of this is literally the job of the armed forces.
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 13:02
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None of this was unique to the Cold War (the subject of this thread). Service personnel are doing all of this today, so what medal would you recommend for them - Cold War 2.0? All of this is literally the job of the armed forces.
Whataboutism at its best. Because similar events are ongoing now, that's reason enough not to recognise those that have gone before. Let get rid of all General service medals then!
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 13:09
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Were there no General service medals awarded during the Cold War?
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 13:18
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Originally Posted by Mil-26Man
Were there no General service medals awarded during the Cold War?
Yes, but for specific concurrent campaigns like Borneo, Radfan etc
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 13:21
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Were there no General service medals awarded during the Cold War?
I refer the honourable gentleman to the response he made some time ago.

​​​​​​​Quote:
We've been at.peace with Russia since the 1850s.
Nope - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Russia_Intervention

And although never 'hot', the Cold War can hardly be characterised as peace (the clue is in the name).
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 13:22
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Right, so if the Cold War in its entirety is reclassified as a specific campaign for the purposes of this medal (rather than the particular shooty bits of it), how would Widger recognise today's service personnel who are doing the exact same thing he and others did decades ago?
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 13:24
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And although never 'hot', the Cold War can hardly be characterised as peace (the clue is in the name).
Indeed, 'Cold' meant it wasn't a war in the normal sense of the word.
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 13:25
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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And NI 212man
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 13:32
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Right, so if the Cold War in its entirety is reclassified as a specific campaign for the purposes of this medal (rather than the particular shooty bits of it), how would Widger recognise today's service personnel who are doing the exact same thing he and others did decades ago?
This thread is not about what is happening now, it is about campaigning for recognition, for those that stood firm in this country during that period up until 1991. Stop trying to negate what others did in some facile argument that it would somehow devalue what is going on now. If you don't want to sign the petition, then you are entirely at liberty not to do so, a liberty brought about by those who are serving now and those who went before.
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 13:36
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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You seem to have done a lot during your time Widger, I'm sorry none of it earned you a medal. Good luck with the petition.
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 13:37
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Widger
An interesting discussion and it is good to see that it has evolved into a more mature discussion that those first few posts, with individuals decrying the efforts of others.

Not everyone sat on an aerodrome in Germany, drinking pilsner. Many others spent months away from families, often in horrendous weather, hunting submarines (big up the MPA force), protecting the nuclear deterrent, trying to shake off Russian AGIs, flying, like Mog at sea, at night, without a diversion and sat in ships getting buzzed by Russian MPAs. Submariners, who closed the hatch in Scotland and opened it again, 3 months later in Scotland. Yes we got paid and fed (until pay as you starve) and many of us benefit from a good pension but, I do feel that the sacrifices of that generation should be recognised. When I joined, most only had 1 medal and that was if they had been down south in 1982. Well deserved. There were the odd DSOs etc, mostly submariners. Before Afghanistan, there were a few Admirals and senior officers with no medals despite their service of merit.

I spent 25 years in, was sat in the Gulf in 1992 whilst Saddam was still kicking off , worked supporting Deny Flight (Bosnia) helping to prevent genocide, took part in supporting our allies in the South China Sea, undertook anti drug patrols and lots of other stuff and all I have to show for it was a Golden Jubilee Medal (for which I am grateful) but which was such a low bar for award. If those who had never stepped in harms way but just served for 5 years could get a Jubilee medal (including various flavours since) or sit in Cyprus during GWI/II , why not recognition for those who helped keep Europe safe, a story that is only just being told. You only have to look and see what is happening in Ukraine to realise the threat that was kept at bay by our combined strength. I for one have signed the petition, 20 years to qualify I suggest.
So let's go with it. What are the selection criteria going to be?
Service personnel only?
What about all the civilians on units without whom we could not have functioned?
What about the ROC?
What about the UKWMO?
How long do you have to have served?
Where?
Doing what?

I'll stop there. Answer those first.
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 13:56
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Tell that to the widows and parents of RAF aircrew killed in flying accidents as a result of pushing themselves and their aircraft to and beyond the limits to maintain deterrence..
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 15:01
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 212man
Yes, but for specific concurrent campaigns like Borneo, Radfan etc
There was that little dust-up in Northern Ireland for 30 years too, IIRC.
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 15:35
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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No medals for that I'm afraid, though many deserved them for protecting the citizens. Politically it would be viewed as similar to Culloden, another unrecognised battle. Though I'm not starting discussion on either event.
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 15:42
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Geriaviator
No medals for that I'm afraid, though many deserved them for protecting the citizens. Politically it would be viewed as similar to Culloden, another unrecognised battle. Though I'm not starting discussion on either event.
Have you not heard of GSM(NI)?
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 15:46
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mil-26Man
Right, so if the Cold War in its entirety is reclassified as a specific campaign for the purposes of this medal (rather than the particular shooty bits of it), how would Widger recognise today's service personnel who are doing the exact same thing he and others did decades ago?
A previous SoS for Defence was looking into this. It’s called the wider service medal and would recognise those personnel who actually deploy to the Baltic or for those, like 51 Sqn, who have been involved in Russia Facing activity before the Ukraine war kicked off and ever since.
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 15:55
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
Have you not heard of GSM(NI)?
Yes of course, sorry slipped my mind along with decades of other stuff which I try to leave in the past.
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 16:02
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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If such a medal is ever to be awarded, the algorithm will need a lot of work to identify and locate intended recipients. One question I would add to the list of Qs I already posted, would it be awarded posthumously, because that is another can of worms.

I saw mention that it might be purchased rather than awarded. Even then, depending on the algorithm, the authentication process will be time consuming, unless you just take someone's word for it, and wearing a medal that you had to buy just doesn't sit right with me.
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 16:13
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Around 300000 GSM(NI) were awarded.... Yes, three hundred thousand!

Nowadays LS&GC is awarded after 15 years service. Perhaps 15 years service between 1947 and 1991 would be reasonable for any 'Cold War Veteran' medal?
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