NATO vs Russia
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
We really do have to modify the NATO treaty to allow expulsion…
Prime Minister of Slovakia Robert Fico with an appalling video statement regarding the anniversary of the full scale war in Ukraine.
He said the West started a demonization of Putin in hope to get him on his knees, but failed. He furthermore stated that the war already started in 2014 by Ukrainian neo-nazis and also pointed towards NATO 'expanding to the east' which is against Russian interest.
He considers Ukraine joining NATO as the basis for World War III and once again expressed that Ukraine, Russia and Europe need peace and security guarantees by the strongest international players.
Prime Minister of Slovakia Robert Fico with an appalling video statement regarding the anniversary of the full scale war in Ukraine.
He said the West started a demonization of Putin in hope to get him on his knees, but failed. He furthermore stated that the war already started in 2014 by Ukrainian neo-nazis and also pointed towards NATO 'expanding to the east' which is against Russian interest.
He considers Ukraine joining NATO as the basis for World War III and once again expressed that Ukraine, Russia and Europe need peace and security guarantees by the strongest international players.
That said, Westie is right about us getting complacent, having had a free ride under US protection for so long. Its about time we stood up.
We assumed that our transatlantic alliance was about more than just bombs and bullets. We thought it was about shared values, a dedication to freedom and democracy and a rejection of totalitarian and brutalist regimes. If the US can no longer be relied upon to uphold and defend those values it is not a trustworthy ally. Is that where we are now?
Mog
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The US isn't. Collectively, Europe is carrying the lion's share - go look at the numbers.
The following 2 users liked this post by Mil-26Man:
...why does the US have to carry the lion's share of helping Ukraine?
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Not sure how that argument would pan out. The US isn’t worried about Russia invading Alaska, europe however is worried about Russian expansionism.
I thought this was about collective defence. Collectively, Europe has provided the most to Ukraine (as well it should). The US needs to stand up as 'the leader of the Free World', though. If it doesn't, the ramifications for the US for its standing in the world, its economy, its perception in the eyes of its enemies, etc, won't stop at the Ukrainian border.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Uh?? You think 80 years of US policy towards the Soviet Union/Russia was solely concerned with deterring an invasion of Alaska? Such a myopic take, I'm astounded
Russia as a capitalist gangster state, not so much. A risk to Europe, but not the USA.
The USA was worried about the USSR as the centre of a global struggle of Communism against Capitalsim - Asia, South America, Africa as battlegrounds.
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I thought this was about collective defence. Collectively, Europe has provided the most to Ukraine (as well it should). The US needs to stand up as 'the leader of the Free World', though. If it doesn't, the ramifications for the US for its standing in the world, its economy, its perception in the eyes of its enemies, etc, won't stop at the Ukrainian border.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
If you want a past comparison, take 1940/early 1941.
There is a war in Europe, but Congress has no interest in taking part - they’re watching the Pacific and Japan. FDR is struggling to get them to support the UK, but Lend Lease is as far as it goes.
Even when Japan attacked the USA they might only have concentrated on the Pacific - but Hitler made the colossal error of declaring war on the USA and gave FDR his opening.
If Biden is re-elected, China attacks Taiwan and Putin supports them, things might go the same way. But Trump is an isolationist with the Republicans resembling those of 1940 under Wilkie.
There is a war in Europe, but Congress has no interest in taking part - they’re watching the Pacific and Japan. FDR is struggling to get them to support the UK, but Lend Lease is as far as it goes.
Even when Japan attacked the USA they might only have concentrated on the Pacific - but Hitler made the colossal error of declaring war on the USA and gave FDR his opening.
If Biden is re-elected, China attacks Taiwan and Putin supports them, things might go the same way. But Trump is an isolationist with the Republicans resembling those of 1940 under Wilkie.
Last edited by ORAC; 25th Feb 2024 at 22:40.
Don’t quite see it that way. China won’t by estimates of those in the know be in a place to be successful in attacking (could attack today, key word is successful) Taiwan for a number of years. Anything short of victory would be the end of Xi Jinping so he’ll bang on his drum until victory is an eventuality and that’ll likely take him past a second Biden administration. Trump isn’t an isolationist, he’s transactional, that would have him in places literally and figuratively not consistent with isolationism. To be clear I didn’t vote for him, and I think he’s an asshole but in certain topics, he’s right.
Should I expect Russian troop ships to appear off the NY or California coast soon? Russia is a threat to euroland, not to the US.
So now it’s a new fangled axis of evil?
Collective but unequal defense. Europe has benefitted from the nuclear umbrella far too much and for far too long.
So now it’s a new fangled axis of evil?
Collective but unequal defense. Europe has benefitted from the nuclear umbrella far too much and for far too long.
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