NATO vs Russia
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From: Co. Down
H&H says:
Last year Trump said he didn't give a damn about Europe but he liked Putin and could do business with him. This totally amoral President views everything in terms of wheeler-dealering as long as it makes money for him and his family along with the US. He has said again that Russia should have the Donbass where the rare minerals are mined -- as long as Putin splits half the takings with him.
I won't be surprised if Trump begins slipping favours to Putin to hinder Ukraine -- Europe's defender for the past four years -- while lifting sanctions too. The Iran episode shows that he acts on his whims no matter what warnings he receives from advisers who are swiftly fired. More likely than not he is abandoning NATO and will soon proclaim a great victory as he scuttles out of the Mideast mess he has created. Peace prize, anyone?
Edited to add reply to DTRed: the UK can do nothing about it. Our one and only destroyer lies U/S in the Med while a Russian warship escorts two shadow fleet tankers through the Channel and they in turn are shadowed by the best UK can offer, an RFA tanker. Prime minister Starmer has indeed promised some defence funding in 2027 but his payout of £3 billion in new welfare benefits comes first. Then our world statesmen sweeps off to a conference in the Middle East ...
Overall, the only thing that vaguely stacks up is a deal between Trump and Putin - "You do what you want and we'll stay out of it - we do what we want and you stay out of it!". Given the last couple of years, really, this is the only logical conclusion.
I won't be surprised if Trump begins slipping favours to Putin to hinder Ukraine -- Europe's defender for the past four years -- while lifting sanctions too. The Iran episode shows that he acts on his whims no matter what warnings he receives from advisers who are swiftly fired. More likely than not he is abandoning NATO and will soon proclaim a great victory as he scuttles out of the Mideast mess he has created. Peace prize, anyone?
Edited to add reply to DTRed: the UK can do nothing about it. Our one and only destroyer lies U/S in the Med while a Russian warship escorts two shadow fleet tankers through the Channel and they in turn are shadowed by the best UK can offer, an RFA tanker. Prime minister Starmer has indeed promised some defence funding in 2027 but his payout of £3 billion in new welfare benefits comes first. Then our world statesmen sweeps off to a conference in the Middle East ...
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From: Here 'n' there!
Are any NATO countries, excluding the USA, laying down any new hulls for ships at present? Increasing tank and aircraft production? Turning out shells and munitions? Training soldiers?
All this talk but with a lead time of several years how exactly will we fight the next war if it happens in the next 12 months?
I'm not seeing much Western activity?
All this talk but with a lead time of several years how exactly will we fight the next war if it happens in the next 12 months?
I'm not seeing much Western activity?
UK-wise, until the DIP is sorted we won't know but, tbh, the last couple of decades don't bode well for anything much there! Westminster have their collective heads where the sun don't shine when it comes to defence. I kick my MP now and again, more to see if he's still awake rather than in any hope he'll actually do anything!
Some stuff is being done in the margins (RN drone capability etc) but that's about it. The new helo has, IIR, been contracted for ..... finally. Ajax ....... is still not sorted but, at least, the MoD seem to accept there are issues with it now. Major new programmes? Tumbleweed City really!
Next 12 months? Maybe if we aim within the next 12 years or so!
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From: UK
Hope I'm allowed a bit of humour in this thread but the UK is certainly taking fighter aircraft cover for the Poseidons seriously - as seen over Arbroath today. More photos at the xtwitter link below.
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From: UK
Are any NATO countries, excluding the USA, laying down any new hulls for ships at present? Increasing tank and aircraft production? Turning out shells and munitions? Training soldiers?
All this talk but with a lead time of several years how exactly will we fight the next war if it happens in the next 12 months?
I'm not seeing much Western activity?
All this talk but with a lead time of several years how exactly will we fight the next war if it happens in the next 12 months?
I'm not seeing much Western activity?
This is truly the point. Particularly for the UK.
Recent events (Ukraine/Iran) seem to demonstrate that having aircraft carriers and large conventional forces armed with expensive sophisticated (read costly/complex) weapons systems are no longer of great importance.
The production of drones and the weapons they utilise is comparatively easier to implement and I'd suggest that's the immediate direction we should be going in the short term. The costs of that are also more likely to be easier to find quickly.
Use Ukrainian expertise and in so doing contribute even more in that direction.
At the same time look to command and control used in Iran. That approach seems to have provided resilience in the face of an overwhelming power.
The very make up of Europe is quite likely to ideally suit a distributed semi autonomous command structure when under pressure.
I'd say the biggest risk to the UK (and Ireland) is going to be coastal defence. The Atlantic facing elements are now exposed to what can reasonably be regarded as a hostile risk (USA/Russia).
That is where interdependencies of European navies is needed - and more drones!
It needs the political will to act now with some investment, the MOD to truly accept the nature of warfare has already changed. One advantage might be that the current numbers in our military could be more suited to this type of approach.
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From: Dark side of the Moon
Has the vastly increased use of drones in Ukraine, and their extensive range, relegated conventional artillery - and to some extent rocket artillery such as HIMARS - to a secondary role, if that? I've not seen anything much about artillery use over the last year or so, hence the question.
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From: MARS
Recent events (Ukraine/Iran) seem to demonstrate that having aircraft carriers and large conventional forces armed with expensive sophisticated (read costly/complex) weapons systems are no longer of great importance
An aircraft carrier is also a whole load more difficult to hit with a drone than an airfield beacuse it can move.
Thread Starter
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
Video of part of an interview on "The Rest is Politics" podcast with Alastair Campbell.
Zelensky proposes a defensive military alliance that includes the EU + Ukraine, Turkey, Norway, and the UK.
This will enable control of the seas, skies, and land of all Europe as the United States withdraws from NATO. The alliance will be stronger than Russia.
This will enable control of the seas, skies, and land of all Europe as the United States withdraws from NATO. The alliance will be stronger than Russia.
Thread Starter
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
Video
BREAKING: Finland and South Korea have signed a €546.8 million contract for the sale of 112 second-hand K9 Thunder 155mm self-propelled howitzer artillery systems from Korean military inventory to Finland.
The deal significantly boosts Finland’s long-range artillery capabilities.
Source: Finnish Ministry of Defence
The deal significantly boosts Finland’s long-range artillery capabilities.
Source: Finnish Ministry of Defence
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From: Europe
Has the vastly increased use of drones in Ukraine, and their extensive range, relegated conventional artillery - and to some extent rocket artillery such as HIMARS - to a secondary role, if that? I've not seen anything much about artillery use over the last year or so, hence the question.
Ukrainian claims of Russian equipment losses
Click on Artillery to be offered a choice of Line Chart, Heat Map or Bar Graph.
The dataset is sourced from the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine and carries a likely bias. This dataset represents the most consistently reported figures on the war but should not be considered definitive.
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From: Denmark
Zelensky proposes a defensive military alliance that includes the EU + Ukraine, Turkey, Norway, and the UK.
This will enable control of the seas, skies, and land of all Europe as the United States withdraws from NATO. The alliance will be stronger than Russia.
This will enable control of the seas, skies, and land of all Europe as the United States withdraws from NATO. The alliance will be stronger than Russia.
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From: Ferrara
"Aircraft carriers are essential bases not just to ensure the freedom of navigation"
But they haven't, have they?In fact one has had to fo in for repairs and its made almost no difference to the amount of bombing of Iran.
But they haven't, have they?In fact one has had to fo in for repairs and its made almost no difference to the amount of bombing of Iran.
Thread Starter
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
https://militarnyi.com/en/news/usa-i...olish-fa-50pl/
USA Approves Integration of AIM-120 Missiles on Polish FA-50PL Fighters
The US government has granted permission to integrate AIM-120C AMRAAM air-to-air missiles with Polish FA-50PL light fighters.
This was reported by the publication Zbiam, citing an interview with Irenaeusz Nowak, Deputy Commander of the General Staff of the Polish Armed Forces. According to the general, the US has authorized the use of AIM-120C-5/7/8 variants, which are the same missiles Poland previously purchased for its F-16C/D fleet.
According to the military official, discussions are still ongoing regarding whether the integration will be carried out under the Foreign Military Sales program, which involves procurement through the US government, or through Direct Commercial Sales (DCS).
Although political approval is only the first step toward integrating the new missiles onto Polish light fighters, it largely alleviates concerns that the promising aircraft might be left without a “long reach.” Previously, only short-range AIM-9X missiles could be mounted on the aircraft.
General Nowak stated that Poland is also considering integrating the aircraft with high-precision air-to-ground weapons — MBDA’s Brimstone anti-tank missiles, as well as Anduril’s Barracuda 500 light cruise missiles, which are planned to be localized in Poland.
As General Novak noted, according to the revised schedule, testing is currently underway in the Republic of Korea—specifically, a series of in-flight refueling exercises were conducted using a Republic of Korea Air Force Airbus A330MRTT.
In early 2026 it was reported that the Polish Armaments Agency and Korea Aerospace Industries had officially revised the FA-50PL delivery schedule, postponing the start of deliveries until mid-2027.
Under the initial plans, the aircraft were to be delivered between 2025 and 2028. According to the updated schedule, the first FA-50PL is expected in mid-2027, with delivery of all 36 aircraft to be completed by early 2029. The delay is attributed to a combination of factors, including supply chain issues, the integration of advanced avionics and American weaponry, as well as the “geopolitical situation.”
The FA-50PL is being developed as a significantly more powerful platform compared to the existing FA-50GF, taking into account Poland’s requirements. Key innovations include a new PhantomStrike active phased array radar from Raytheon, an in-flight refueling system, the AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pod, a helmet-mounted display (HMD), increased external fuel capacity, and the capability to use AIM-9X Sidewinder and AIM-120C AMRAAM air-to-air missiles.
In addition to the delay in the delivery of the FA-50PL, initial plans also called for the upgrade of 12 FA-50GF aircraft to the FA-50GL configuration. However, by the end of 2025, it became known that the upgrade had been deemed “economically unfeasible,” and these aircraft will be used primarily for pilot training.
The US government has granted permission to integrate AIM-120C AMRAAM air-to-air missiles with Polish FA-50PL light fighters.
This was reported by the publication Zbiam, citing an interview with Irenaeusz Nowak, Deputy Commander of the General Staff of the Polish Armed Forces. According to the general, the US has authorized the use of AIM-120C-5/7/8 variants, which are the same missiles Poland previously purchased for its F-16C/D fleet.
According to the military official, discussions are still ongoing regarding whether the integration will be carried out under the Foreign Military Sales program, which involves procurement through the US government, or through Direct Commercial Sales (DCS).
Although political approval is only the first step toward integrating the new missiles onto Polish light fighters, it largely alleviates concerns that the promising aircraft might be left without a “long reach.” Previously, only short-range AIM-9X missiles could be mounted on the aircraft.
General Nowak stated that Poland is also considering integrating the aircraft with high-precision air-to-ground weapons — MBDA’s Brimstone anti-tank missiles, as well as Anduril’s Barracuda 500 light cruise missiles, which are planned to be localized in Poland.
As General Novak noted, according to the revised schedule, testing is currently underway in the Republic of Korea—specifically, a series of in-flight refueling exercises were conducted using a Republic of Korea Air Force Airbus A330MRTT.
In early 2026 it was reported that the Polish Armaments Agency and Korea Aerospace Industries had officially revised the FA-50PL delivery schedule, postponing the start of deliveries until mid-2027.
Under the initial plans, the aircraft were to be delivered between 2025 and 2028. According to the updated schedule, the first FA-50PL is expected in mid-2027, with delivery of all 36 aircraft to be completed by early 2029. The delay is attributed to a combination of factors, including supply chain issues, the integration of advanced avionics and American weaponry, as well as the “geopolitical situation.”
The FA-50PL is being developed as a significantly more powerful platform compared to the existing FA-50GF, taking into account Poland’s requirements. Key innovations include a new PhantomStrike active phased array radar from Raytheon, an in-flight refueling system, the AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pod, a helmet-mounted display (HMD), increased external fuel capacity, and the capability to use AIM-9X Sidewinder and AIM-120C AMRAAM air-to-air missiles.
In addition to the delay in the delivery of the FA-50PL, initial plans also called for the upgrade of 12 FA-50GF aircraft to the FA-50GL configuration. However, by the end of 2025, it became known that the upgrade had been deemed “economically unfeasible,” and these aircraft will be used primarily for pilot training.
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From: Europe
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From: surfing, watching for sharks
Should short fuse tasking require an immediate military response to a situation, there’s no better tool than a carrier. When you need persistence, send two carriers.
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From: surfing, watching for sharks
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From: Ferrara
"Should short fuse tasking require an immediate military response to a situation, there’s no better tool than a carrier."
Assuming its in range - otherwise it has to position - and land based aircraft can do that much faster
Assuming its in range - otherwise it has to position - and land based aircraft can do that much faster
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From: surfing, watching for sharks
Short fuse rarely means a minutes away response. Even when the ship itself is not physically in range, its air wing is. A carrier’s power is undeniable, both politically and militarily. Politically, knowing a CSG is steaming towards your shore sends a message. Militarily, even with a ship far off, those aircraft have a long reach, especially when tanking from organic assets or perhaps even off USAF assets. This was the norm where land locked Afghanistan was on the receiving end of carrier based jets launched from carriers. Carriers that were “in range” to use your words despite operating long distances away from the target area.
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From: UK
Short fuse rarely means a minutes away response. Even when the ship itself is not physically in range, its air wing is. A carrier’s power is undeniable, both politically and militarily. Politically, knowing a CSG is steaming towards your shore sends a message. Militarily, even with a ship far off, those aircraft have a long reach, especially when tanking from organic assets or perhaps even off USAF assets. This was the norm where land locked Afghanistan was on the receiving end of carrier based jets launched from carriers. Carriers that were “in range” to use your words despite operating long distances away from the target area.
Last edited by beardy; 12th April 2026 at 06:48.