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NATO vs Russia

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Old 12th Mar 2024, 22:27
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Romania’s president launches bid for NATO top job against Mark Rutte

Romanian president: A vision for NATO’s future
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 06:54
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​​​​​​​BREAKING:

The U.S. State Department just issued its permission for Poland to buy 821 new JASSM Extended Range (900km) cruise missiles.

After the purchase, Poland will have more than 1000 cruise missiles, the most out of all European states.
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 07:37
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​​​​​​​Poland will receive a USD 2 billion preferential loan and an offer to buy 96 Apache AH-64E attack helicopters, along with radars & various missiles.

The news were delivered by National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan.

The helicopters will cost around USD 10 bn.
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 13:06
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Just gonna say that the AH-1Z might have been a better choice ...
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 17:01
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
Just gonna say that the AH-1Z might have been a better choice ...
Why? Genuine question.
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 19:20
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Originally Posted by ORAC
The U.S. State Department just issued its permission for Poland to buy 821 new JASSM Extended Range (900km) cruise missiles.
Hello Moscow, nervous? ;-).
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 21:18
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Originally Posted by Mil-26Man
Why? Genuine question.
1. lower parts count
2. Fewer maintenance man hours per flight hour.
3. Capability solid, armament is in the same scale as Apache:4. Czechs have them
5. Slovaks getting them. (But that's currently in work, deal not yet final).

Not that Apache is a bad attack helicopter ... it's fine.
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 23:02
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Question is where do they come from?

No longer in production. Out of 360 built the USMC operate around 190, leaving 150, Nigeria have 12+32 on order; Bahrain has 12 and the Czech Republic has an unnumbered order - let’s call it another 12. That’s 78, leaving 72 - ignoring losses etc.

Not enough airframes to cover the initial Polish order, let alone future replacements where they’d want an active production line and other operators in Europe for spares.

Logistically the Viper wasn’t a runner.


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Old 14th Mar 2024, 08:30
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
1. lower parts count
2. Fewer maintenance man hours per flight hour.
3. Capability solid, armament is in the same scale as Apache:4. Czechs have them
5. Slovaks getting them. (But that's currently in work, deal not yet final).

Not that Apache is a bad attack helicopter ... it's fine.

AH-1Z more expensive than Apache, and don't get the commonality of spares and support that Poland will want with US Army mainly (but also UK).
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 09:06
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Originally Posted by Mil-26Man
AH-1Z more expensive than Apache
???
Are you sure? And please don't compare US Army Fly away Unit cost AH-64 to export prices of AH-1Z
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 09:14
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Originally Posted by henra
???
Are you sure? And please don't compare US Army Fly away Unit cost AH-64 to export prices of AH-1Z
The only public figures we have are the DCSA export notifications for both types. I accept dividing the estimated value by the number of aircraft doesn't give an accurate figure, given the inclusion of related equipment, weapons, spares, training, support, etc, but with the same being for both the AH-64 and AH-1Z they do provide a useful comparator.

For Kuwait Kuwait – AH-64E Apache Helicopters | Defense Security Cooperation Agency (dsca.mil) the AH-64E comes out at approx $60 million apiece (taking into account some remanufactured airframes).
For Nigeria Nigeria – AH-1Z Attack Helicopter Related FMS Acquisitions | Defense Security Cooperation Agency (dsca.mil) the AH-1Z comes out at approx $83 million apiece.

Not scientific, but it is indicative.
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 12:17
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Question is where do they come from?
No longer in production.
Production for the domestic (i.e., U.S.) market has ended, but the Czech examples are all to be new-built. Flight International adds "Bell extends H-1 production with $455m attack helicopter order from Nigeria".
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 12:21
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Denmark to introduce conscription due to threat from Russia.

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Old 14th Mar 2024, 12:24
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Quite liked this comment.

ivan
@halfmantuano
Lol Russia just ignited the biggest NATO military rearming and mobilization in decades ! Kudos Putin.
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 20:45
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I guess these numbers will be going up.
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 20:59
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Is that specific spending on Nato operations or just general defence spending?

Either way, yes it seems it will be going up.
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 23:09
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At least 50% of the US spending is against China and not NATO related - and there is no reason to include Canadian spending along with the USA, NORAD is not NATO orientated - or integrated.

If you half the US budget and change the colour of the Canadian contribution an entirely different perspective emerges.
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 06:03
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Originally Posted by ORAC
At least 50% of the US spending is against China and not NATO related - and there is no reason to include Canadian spending along with the USA, NORAD is not NATO orientated - or integrated.

If you half the US budget and change the colour of the Canadian contribution an entirely different perspective emerges.
I suspect locating Canada with the US is simply a nod to which side of the pond it lies on.
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 14:28
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Originally Posted by West Coast
I suspect locating Canada with the US is simply a nod to which side of the pond it lies on.
Indeed, a closer look at the graphic which states 'Europe' and 'North America' around the circumference of the circle shows as much.
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 15:33
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⚡️EU allocates $544 million to ramp up ammunition production.

The European Commission allocated 500 million euros (around $544 million) to increase the EU's ammunition production capacity to 2 million shells per year by the end of 2025, the commission's press service announced.

The announcement follows the recent adoption of the first-ever European Defense Industrial Strategy (EDIS) at the EU level aimed at supporting the competitiveness and readiness of the bloc's defense industry.

https://kyivindependent.com/eu-alloc...on-production/
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