Warship Tour of duty, 7pm BBC2 covers the F35 accident
Hermes Badgers certainly used live 12-bore ammo to disperse the local sheathbills on the ramp during Corporate. The Old Man nearly had epilepsy when he found out; quotes of Ancient Marriner, albatross and associated dread outcomes. Not that he was superstitious!
Mog
Mog
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You are correct of course and my bad. Solid intake blanks would be almost impossible to lose because of their size and way they fit. I was thinking the inflatable type that sit inside the intake held in by air pressure. The f35 look to be of this type. I have only ever seen this type fixed together by a tape under the fuselage with a flag dead centre.
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I have worked for two Air Forces and in both it was standard practice when preparing a fighter for flight to lay out the aircraft blanks/locks for the pilot to see when he arrived at the dispersal.
After he had checked that all were accounted for they would then be stowed as appropriate while the pilot did his external pre-flight checks.
It was the responsibility of the pilot and airman in charge of the see-off crew to ensure all were accounted for.
I have never heard of an intake blank being left in during an engine start.
In a twin intake aircraft the blanks should be joined by a length of tape/cord. That way you cannot forget one.
It would seem that standards have dropped very badly and somebody in authority needs his a**e severly kicking.
CC
After he had checked that all were accounted for they would then be stowed as appropriate while the pilot did his external pre-flight checks.
It was the responsibility of the pilot and airman in charge of the see-off crew to ensure all were accounted for.
I have never heard of an intake blank being left in during an engine start.
In a twin intake aircraft the blanks should be joined by a length of tape/cord. That way you cannot forget one.
It would seem that standards have dropped very badly and somebody in authority needs his a**e severly kicking.
CC
There are many variables on this subject, perhaps the least of which is aircraft type or civil/military. Consider conspicuity of the blank/flag combo, consequence of premature removal, remoteness of the aircraft from its tech-log/Form700, and authorisation of personnel to certify removal. Every cover, blank and lock is there for a reason, and its removal introduces a potential risk. For instance, the tech log requires certification for removal of all devices before acceptance by flight-crew; a particular concept of operation now requires the aircraft to be parked on a dispersal or flight-line several hundred metres from the flight office, and the aircraft is therefore parked for at least several minutes without prop-strops or gust-locks. There isn't a one-size-fits-all regime.
What is important is that for each organisation, fleet and type of operation, the responsibilites of every member of the ground/flight team are well thought out (day/night, fair-weather and foul), promulgated in procedures, and adhered to by everyone, every time.
What is important is that for each organisation, fleet and type of operation, the responsibilites of every member of the ground/flight team are well thought out (day/night, fair-weather and foul), promulgated in procedures, and adhered to by everyone, every time.
Perhaps it starts at the design stage? The F35 intake blanks look like they are pushed into the intake. If one is removed without the other, could certain wind conditions suck the other to the back where it cannot be seen. Would it be better to have a cover that sat over the intake lip so nothing of the cover ever actually penetrated the intake. They could then easily be connected. Just a thought.
C130 Intake blanks
During my time on Albert, from 1967 to 1994 with some gaps, pitot head covers were removed and draped over the external power cable or if no cable, draped over the crewdoor between the support arm and the door so the door could not be closed. Both locations were obvious and needed a further action before departure, removal of grpund power or trying to close the crew door.
Where, as in geographically, they placed the pitot blanks on the nose lock happened I don't know as I have never heard of such a stupid procedure almost designed to cause problems!
Attempted takeoffs with the nose lock in did take place but not in any great number, normally followed by a quick circuit, appearance of growbag from Albert, grovel in the nose wheel bay, swift take off and disappear followed ultimately by a few slabs for the boys from the eng.
Where, as in geographically, they placed the pitot blanks on the nose lock happened I don't know as I have never heard of such a stupid procedure almost designed to cause problems!
Attempted takeoffs with the nose lock in did take place but not in any great number, normally followed by a quick circuit, appearance of growbag from Albert, grovel in the nose wheel bay, swift take off and disappear followed ultimately by a few slabs for the boys from the eng.
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Attempted takeoffs with the nose lock in did take place but not in any great number, normally followed by a quick circuit, appearance of growbag from Albert, grovel in the nose wheel bay, swift take off and disappear followed ultimately by a few slabs for the boys from the eng.
Most intakes in my experience had blanks that were oversized and could not be pushed inside beyond the opening, what is it about the F35 one that requires placement so far down the intake as to render it not visible?
The MOD report concludes the sole cause of the incident was a LH (port) intake blank located inside the aircraft intake becoming pinned against the engine inlet guide vanes thus restricting airflow during the critical take off phase.
The F35 intake blanks in use at the time of this incident were the latest version, a plug type fitting whereby they were physically manipulated into position and held in place by friction; the only security was by the use of a single quick release pip pin secured to a lanyard which could be physically attached into the aircraft skin.
The LH (port) intake blank recovered from the sea immediately after the ditching of BK18 was recovered intact with the pip pin/lanyard inside the stowage pocket
This occurrence was not the first time of happening (for F35 Operators) and had been formally recorded on many previous occurrences; the report stated that other similar incidents had also taken place but had not been officially reported. The F35 community had been advised of previous (intake blank) incidents and thus were aware of the potential for ongoing incidents to become an accident
Such was the level of concern about other potential shortcomings that the report makes no fewer than 46 recommendations for things that should be changed going forward.
The panel further concluded;-
This has turned out to be an expensive and very embarrassing incident for all concerned including the US Military, the only good thing is that everyone walked away with a story to tell.
The F35 intake blanks in use at the time of this incident were the latest version, a plug type fitting whereby they were physically manipulated into position and held in place by friction; the only security was by the use of a single quick release pip pin secured to a lanyard which could be physically attached into the aircraft skin.
The LH (port) intake blank recovered from the sea immediately after the ditching of BK18 was recovered intact with the pip pin/lanyard inside the stowage pocket
This occurrence was not the first time of happening (for F35 Operators) and had been formally recorded on many previous occurrences; the report stated that other similar incidents had also taken place but had not been officially reported. The F35 community had been advised of previous (intake blank) incidents and thus were aware of the potential for ongoing incidents to become an accident
Such was the level of concern about other potential shortcomings that the report makes no fewer than 46 recommendations for things that should be changed going forward.
The panel further concluded;-
- • The omission of an item of Red Gear could have occurred in any one of the aircraft.
- • Experience from embarked operations was that FOD was often found in jet intakes.
- • The use of the pip pin could have prevented the blank from migrating down the intake.
- • There were six related aircraft intake blank issues that occurred on the night of 16 Nov 21 and morning of 17 Nov 21 (the day of the incident).
- • The official policy of using the pip pin to secure intake blanks; however it did references the lanyard being too long and the possibility of causing scratch marks on the aircraft engine intake skin.
- • If the ground crew had actually carried out an engine/intake inspection (by climbing into the common duct) immediately prior to the pilot getting into the aircraft; and had formally reported to the pilot as per 1.4.58.
- • Pussers chord tied between the LH and RH blank (chord on the outside)
- • Pussers chord tied between the LH and RH blank (chord on the inside) requiring the engineer to climb in the RH (starboard) intake taking with him/her/them the LH (port) blank, fitting it from the inside, then on exit fitting remaining blank; incorporating common duct and engine compressor inspection each time.
- • Fitment of a RFID (radio frequency identification) to each item of Red Gear and the introduction of bar readers to track them.
- • Fitment of an Air Tag (other brands available) Bluetooth trackable, latest gives a bleep if lost
- • Fitment of a GoPro (other brands available) into the common duct, can be linked to any appropriate device so we can all see where our money is going.
This has turned out to be an expensive and very embarrassing incident for all concerned including the US Military, the only good thing is that everyone walked away with a story to tell.
I think, reading the report, there were a lot of other issues involved - lack of routine, lack of records, crew kept off the deck for "security" reasons etc etc.
yes the blank should have been noticed but the overall report suggested all was not well with the operation overall.
yes the blank should have been noticed but the overall report suggested all was not well with the operation overall.
Lefty loose,a `pusser`s chord ` is played on a Bosun`s whistle.....Pusser`s `cord` is a long piece of `string`......
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entitled The Hanrahan method.
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The loosernut OP said this: "ogging'. Whilst SIR Jack says: [& ASLO aks: "How long is that piece of string?"]"Ogging is term for a tactic developed for the online multiplayer game Netrek...."
https://www.encyclo.co.uk/meaning-of-Ogging
&
"OGGIN: nautical slang a word used by sailors for the sea"
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/oggin
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 28th Oct 2023 at 19:48. Reason: + Q
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lefty loose
I have a better idea to prevent re-occurrence of this incident:-
That the crew preparing the aircraft for flight do the job that they are trained to do!!
CC
I have a better idea to prevent re-occurrence of this incident:-
That the crew preparing the aircraft for flight do the job that they are trained to do!!
CC
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[QUOTE=golder;11529581]This is the episode, for those outside the UK. BBC has a country block./QUOTE] Thanks for the link. Crash story starts at 40min 14 seconds to go for 9 minutes.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 29th Oct 2023 at 13:20.
It's not like we did this 'just give-it-a-go, what-could-go-wrong cruise' in front of a 'skeleton' detachment of US Marines that still outnumbered the UK by over a 100, or deployed NMC capable jets in the hope they could be fixed at sea. That could have been really embarrassing...