F-22 Upgrade Proposed
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F-22 Upgrade Proposed
Sharpen the Claws: How Lockheed Martin Plans to Make the F-22 Raptor Even Better - 19FortyFive
The article points out the opportunity costs for the proposed upgrade: it's about 9 billion dollars to upgrade the in-service F-22's sensor suites and fuel capacity - the sensor upgrade looks to come in at about $4 billion. The program which may lose some funds to that upgrade is likely NGAD.
I am for the Raptor extending its capability and life while the new - and likely over cost, and ever-moving-to-the-right schedule (if history is any guide)) - replacement gets developed and comes into service. F-22 is a mature system. Its replacement, NGAD, is a case of "sure, we'll be IOC in 2030" which I am very skeptical about.
There's more to the article than that, but I suspect that a Raptor in the hand (or a few hundred of them) is worth a hell of a lot more than an NGAD in the bush. 
The article points out the opportunity costs for the proposed upgrade: it's about 9 billion dollars to upgrade the in-service F-22's sensor suites and fuel capacity - the sensor upgrade looks to come in at about $4 billion. The program which may lose some funds to that upgrade is likely NGAD.
I am for the Raptor extending its capability and life while the new - and likely over cost, and ever-moving-to-the-right schedule (if history is any guide)) - replacement gets developed and comes into service. F-22 is a mature system. Its replacement, NGAD, is a case of "sure, we'll be IOC in 2030" which I am very skeptical about.
Critics have pointed out that the investment for the upgrades, reportedly pegged at $9 billion by U.S. Air Force leadership, seems excessive for an aircraft that will begin to be phased out by the end of the decade. Lockheed executives and top Air Force brass contend that the modernization effort is vital — both to keep the F-22 relevant and to serve as a bridge until the NGAD is fully operational as a frontline fighter.
Current speculation suggests these are Infrared Search and Track (IRST) systems given their size and shape as well as previous comments by Lockheed indicating the lack of room for such systems within the fuselage. IRST is not a new technology, but recent advances have demonstrated its usefulness as a complement to radar in detecting low-profile stealth aircraft such as Russia’s Su-57 or China’s J-20. The other major upgrade is stealthy fuel tanks. Most modern combat aircraft can carry external fuel tanks mounted on pylons. These tanks greatly increase their range at some cost to their speed and maneuverability. When it comes to stealth aircraft such the F-22 and F-35, any external stores greatly increase their radar cross-section (RCS), making them far more detectable. The new fuel tanks seek to solve that problem by being stealthy themselves.
Current speculation suggests these are Infrared Search and Track (IRST) systems given their size and shape as well as previous comments by Lockheed indicating the lack of room for such systems within the fuselage. IRST is not a new technology, but recent advances have demonstrated its usefulness as a complement to radar in detecting low-profile stealth aircraft such as Russia’s Su-57 or China’s J-20. The other major upgrade is stealthy fuel tanks. Most modern combat aircraft can carry external fuel tanks mounted on pylons. These tanks greatly increase their range at some cost to their speed and maneuverability. When it comes to stealth aircraft such the F-22 and F-35, any external stores greatly increase their radar cross-section (RCS), making them far more detectable. The new fuel tanks seek to solve that problem by being stealthy themselves.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 15th Sep 2023 at 14:06.
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It's an interesting proposal... and I can see both sides of the argument. It's a lot of money to spend on an aircraft type scheduled for phase-out, but given the development timelines and inevitable delays that will likely impact NGAD, that phase-out will likely be pushed back. I'm with Lonewolf, a Raptor in the hand is worth a lot more than NGAD promises in the bush. A third side of the argument would be "how many more F-35s could we buy with $9 billion and would that be a better use of our money".
Personally, I'd like to see a new production "F-22B" with the avionics/systems of the F-35, but that ship sailed a long time ago.
Personally, I'd like to see a new production "F-22B" with the avionics/systems of the F-35, but that ship sailed a long time ago.
The following users liked this post:
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
It’s not F-22 vs NGAD, it’s F-22 vs Skyborg, the unmanned NGAD/B-21 wingman, as the qualified LM engineers working on Skyborg would have to be pulled to work on any F-22 upgrade programme.
And it appears the USAF prefers Skyborg.
(And when you look at the time it takes to repair or work on an F-22 with its bespoke ADA software and toxic 1st generation stealth coatings, Skyborg is also now probably least risk and faster to deliver.)
Article is a year old, but I don’t think anything has changed.
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022...s-hunter-says/
Unmanned program could suffer if Congress blocks F-22 retirements, Hunter says
And it appears the USAF prefers Skyborg.
(And when you look at the time it takes to repair or work on an F-22 with its bespoke ADA software and toxic 1st generation stealth coatings, Skyborg is also now probably least risk and faster to deliver.)
Article is a year old, but I don’t think anything has changed.
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022...s-hunter-says/
Unmanned program could suffer if Congress blocks F-22 retirements, Hunter says
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In the article it says of the non stealth fuel tank issue affects both the F22 and the F35,
could a common fuel tank be found to spread the R&D and production costs?
With the planned F35 sales it would at least drive down that cost.
or am I oversimplifing it?
could a common fuel tank be found to spread the R&D and production costs?
With the planned F35 sales it would at least drive down that cost.
or am I oversimplifing it?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
They originally planned and designed a non-stealthy tank for the F-35, but it was dropped (sic). Looked at again later, but hasn’t really gone anywhere.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ery-good-thing
Lots of rumours the Israeli’s have built their own, but no proof.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...s-f-35s-report
However, returning to you point about a common stealth tank - different wing aerodynamics, different stealth technologies reference reflection/absorption and tank-airframe interface, so I doubt it being feasible.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ery-good-thing
Lots of rumours the Israeli’s have built their own, but no proof.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...s-f-35s-report
However, returning to you point about a common stealth tank - different wing aerodynamics, different stealth technologies reference reflection/absorption and tank-airframe interface, so I doubt it being feasible.
There could be some cost saving using common technologies for the mechanics and materials of the tanks, but as noted the tanks themselves would have to customized.
My understanding is that - during WW II - the allies used a paper machete type material to make drop tanks for aircraft such as the P-51 Mustang (cheap and didn't use high-demand materials).
Wouldn't something like that have low radar reflectivity?
To my feeble mind - I'm no radar expert, just some general E-M and antenna courses - thin sections (relative to radar wavelength) of many materials with low conductivity and relative permittivity may produce little reflection at normal incidence, but what about all that fuel in the tank. It's like a large 3D object and its permittivity is ~2, so it's going to reflect some. That's why the emphasis on radar absorbing materials for the skins.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
https://www.twz.com/air/f-22-spotted...anks-irst-pods
F-22 Spotted With New Stealth Wing Tanks, Infrared Sensor Pods
We have just got our first look at an F-22 Raptor sporting its new stealthy external fuel tanks and underwing infrared sensor pods.User @Task_Force 23 on X snapped a picture of the Raptor in this totally new configuration today as it was flying around near Mojave Air And Space Port. As such, this was almost certainly an Edwards-based F-22 assigned to testing duties.
The Raptor's new stores are set to unlock new capabilities, some of them long in the making. This includes fielding a highly capable infrared search and track (IRST)system, a feature originally planned for the F-22, but was cut due to budget concerns decades ago. You can read all about this in our exclusive reporting here.
The War Zone was the first to report on the transformation the F-22 Raptor is about to go through as it transitions to the back half of its career. A few months after publishing that article and an additional report, a concept image of the F-22's new external stores configuration emerged out of the Pentagon......
F-22 Spotted With New Stealth Wing Tanks, Infrared Sensor Pods
We have just got our first look at an F-22 Raptor sporting its new stealthy external fuel tanks and underwing infrared sensor pods.User @Task_Force 23 on X snapped a picture of the Raptor in this totally new configuration today as it was flying around near Mojave Air And Space Port. As such, this was almost certainly an Edwards-based F-22 assigned to testing duties.
The Raptor's new stores are set to unlock new capabilities, some of them long in the making. This includes fielding a highly capable infrared search and track (IRST)system, a feature originally planned for the F-22, but was cut due to budget concerns decades ago. You can read all about this in our exclusive reporting here.
The War Zone was the first to report on the transformation the F-22 Raptor is about to go through as it transitions to the back half of its career. A few months after publishing that article and an additional report, a concept image of the F-22's new external stores configuration emerged out of the Pentagon......
