USAF Lessons from Ukraine
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Another article on the above briefing.
What I find interesting here is the emphasis on conducting training during operational missions carrying live armed missions.
Good thing we don’t have any Jags or F-4s left in theatre…..
Second item is the renewed emphasis on exercises on how to penetrate enemy AD. I can remember doing that a few times back in the 80s: 400+ attackers in 10 minutes over a narrow front to punch a hole through the defences and fan out behind. How the wheel turns….
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...ics-in-europe/
Ukraine war prompts new US air tactics in Europe
…..No longer are allied air forces passively circling over Europe for the sake of visibility. U.S. pilots and their counterparts now use air policing missions to practice offensive and defensive maneuvers along NATO’s eastern border.
Struck by Russia’s inability to control Ukrainian airspace and Ukraine’s inability to fully secure it, NATO has begun working through the details of how it would maintain ownership of its own skies while breaking through enemy defenses to secure more airspac.
Hecker said his top priority has become figuring out how to counter air and missile defenses, electronic jamming and other anti-access, area-denial (A2/AD) capabilities, as they are known in military parlance, that would keep the U.S. out of Russian territory…..
“We did a lot of the tactical-level planning for that kind of mission,” Hecker said. “We will use that planning to actually do rehearsals and practices as we continue our enhanced air policing on [NATO’s] eastern border.”
U.S. airmen have begun honing those moves in training sorties with European aircraft on the eastern flank, he said. It’s one example of how allied airpower has evolved alongside the conflict across NATO’s border.
After Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, armed NATO jets flew around-the-clock air patrols to discourage the conflict from spilling into other European nations. That kept Russian forces at bay but arguably left NATO airmen less ready for conflict, Hecker said.
“If you just do circles with missiles on board, you’re not actually practicing what you’re going to do in combat,” he said.
Once leaders were convinced that the alliance’s airspace was safe, airmen changed tack. Now pilots on patrol also take part in anti-access training along NATO’s border — pairing the deterrent value of an air patrol with the tactical value of real-world practice.
NATO will also put those tactics to the test at a major new training exercise, Ramstein Flag, in Greece at the end of 2024, Hecker said.
“We don’t want to go to war with Russia, and I don’t think they want to go to war with us either,” he said. “But we need to make sure that we have the forces capable of deterring them, so that nothing bad will happen.”
NATO will look for other opportunities to try out new tactics in large exercises, particularly those that combine multiple types of aircraft for more realism, Hecker said.
Those events could include Ukrainian pilots at the end of their training to fly the U.S.-built F-16 Fighting Falcon, he added…..
What I find interesting here is the emphasis on conducting training during operational missions carrying live armed missions.
Good thing we don’t have any Jags or F-4s left in theatre…..
Second item is the renewed emphasis on exercises on how to penetrate enemy AD. I can remember doing that a few times back in the 80s: 400+ attackers in 10 minutes over a narrow front to punch a hole through the defences and fan out behind. How the wheel turns….
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...ics-in-europe/
Ukraine war prompts new US air tactics in Europe
…..No longer are allied air forces passively circling over Europe for the sake of visibility. U.S. pilots and their counterparts now use air policing missions to practice offensive and defensive maneuvers along NATO’s eastern border.
Struck by Russia’s inability to control Ukrainian airspace and Ukraine’s inability to fully secure it, NATO has begun working through the details of how it would maintain ownership of its own skies while breaking through enemy defenses to secure more airspac.
Hecker said his top priority has become figuring out how to counter air and missile defenses, electronic jamming and other anti-access, area-denial (A2/AD) capabilities, as they are known in military parlance, that would keep the U.S. out of Russian territory…..
“We did a lot of the tactical-level planning for that kind of mission,” Hecker said. “We will use that planning to actually do rehearsals and practices as we continue our enhanced air policing on [NATO’s] eastern border.”
U.S. airmen have begun honing those moves in training sorties with European aircraft on the eastern flank, he said. It’s one example of how allied airpower has evolved alongside the conflict across NATO’s border.
After Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, armed NATO jets flew around-the-clock air patrols to discourage the conflict from spilling into other European nations. That kept Russian forces at bay but arguably left NATO airmen less ready for conflict, Hecker said.
“If you just do circles with missiles on board, you’re not actually practicing what you’re going to do in combat,” he said.
Once leaders were convinced that the alliance’s airspace was safe, airmen changed tack. Now pilots on patrol also take part in anti-access training along NATO’s border — pairing the deterrent value of an air patrol with the tactical value of real-world practice.
NATO will also put those tactics to the test at a major new training exercise, Ramstein Flag, in Greece at the end of 2024, Hecker said.
“We don’t want to go to war with Russia, and I don’t think they want to go to war with us either,” he said. “But we need to make sure that we have the forces capable of deterring them, so that nothing bad will happen.”
NATO will look for other opportunities to try out new tactics in large exercises, particularly those that combine multiple types of aircraft for more realism, Hecker said.
Those events could include Ukrainian pilots at the end of their training to fly the U.S.-built F-16 Fighting Falcon, he added…..
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Hmm, this looks a lot like something I noted in the Ukraine War Thread (Mk 2) about electromagnetic spectrum superiority and air superiority going in hand and hand.
Thanks for the post ORAC, interesting read.
Thanks for the post ORAC, interesting read.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
The Department of Defense announced today that the U.S. will:
“field attritable autonomous systems at a scale of multiple thousands, in multiple domains, within the next 18-to-24 months.”
“field attritable autonomous systems at a scale of multiple thousands, in multiple domains, within the next 18-to-24 months.”
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
BREAKING: Poland asks Belarus to immediately expel the Wagner Group.
Poland's Interior Minister Mariusz Kaminski warned that Poland will retaliate if Wagner causes an incident against it or on its border with Lithuania.
Unclear what he means by a "critical incident" but it could extend to the weaponization of migration given his other comments.
The most likely retaliation could be a complete closure of Poland and the Baltic States borders with Belarus
Poland also asked all illegal migrants to leave the border area.
This crisis is worsening but still lags beyond the weaponization seen in the fall of 2021.
Poland's Interior Minister Mariusz Kaminski warned that Poland will retaliate if Wagner causes an incident against it or on its border with Lithuania.
Unclear what he means by a "critical incident" but it could extend to the weaponization of migration given his other comments.
The most likely retaliation could be a complete closure of Poland and the Baltic States borders with Belarus
Poland also asked all illegal migrants to leave the border area.
This crisis is worsening but still lags beyond the weaponization seen in the fall of 2021.
We must ensure the PRC leadership wakes up every day, considers the risks of aggression, and concludes, “today is not the day” — and not just today, but every day, between now and 2027, now and 2035, now and 2049, and beyond.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
More on the above.
https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon...te-with-china/
Pentagon unveils ‘Replicator’ drone program to compete with China
WASHINGTON — The Pentagon committed on Monday to fielding thousands of attritable, autonomous systems across multiple domains within the next two years as part of a new initiative to better compete with China.
The program, dubbed Replicator, was announced by Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks, speaking at the National Defense Industrial Association’s Emerging Technologies conference here.
“Replicator will galvanize progress in the too-slow shift of U.S. military innovation to leverage platforms that are small, smart, cheap and many,” Hicks said.
Hicks and Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Christopher Grady will oversee the program, with support from Doug Beck, director of the Defense Innovation Unit. Further details, Hicks said, will be released in the coming weeks………
House appropriators have backed that idea in their fiscal 2025 defense spending bill. The legislation would allocate $1 billion toward establishing a DIU-managed hedge portfolio made up of low-cost drones, agile communication and computing modes and AI capabilities.
The Department of Defense requested $1.8 billion for artificial intelligence for fiscal 2024 and was overseeing more than 685 related projects as of 2021. Replicator is intended to pull those investments together and further scale production, Hicks said.
https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon...te-with-china/
Pentagon unveils ‘Replicator’ drone program to compete with China
WASHINGTON — The Pentagon committed on Monday to fielding thousands of attritable, autonomous systems across multiple domains within the next two years as part of a new initiative to better compete with China.
The program, dubbed Replicator, was announced by Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks, speaking at the National Defense Industrial Association’s Emerging Technologies conference here.
“Replicator will galvanize progress in the too-slow shift of U.S. military innovation to leverage platforms that are small, smart, cheap and many,” Hicks said.
Hicks and Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Christopher Grady will oversee the program, with support from Doug Beck, director of the Defense Innovation Unit. Further details, Hicks said, will be released in the coming weeks………
House appropriators have backed that idea in their fiscal 2025 defense spending bill. The legislation would allocate $1 billion toward establishing a DIU-managed hedge portfolio made up of low-cost drones, agile communication and computing modes and AI capabilities.
The Department of Defense requested $1.8 billion for artificial intelligence for fiscal 2024 and was overseeing more than 685 related projects as of 2021. Replicator is intended to pull those investments together and further scale production, Hicks said.
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Good thing we don’t have any Jags or F-4s left in theatre…..
Technology has moved on since, I agree, but filling your latest aircraft with millions of pounds worth of Computer systems that are not as simple, nor an easy fix are not necessarily an advantage when deployed out into the field, after all what is the point of a VTOL F-35 if you cannot operate it in that environment in all weathers? Simplicity in numbers do have their advantages.
Maybe so, but the one thing the Jag had in its favour was it could deploy with the minimum of Engineers away from base, It was reliable and relatively simple to operate and fix.
Technology has moved on since, I agree, but filling your latest aircraft with millions of pounds worth of Computer systems that are not as simple, nor an easy fix are not necessarily an advantage when deployed out into the field, after all what is the point of a VTOL F-35 if you cannot operate it in that environment in all weathers? Simplicity in numbers do have their advantages.
Technology has moved on since, I agree, but filling your latest aircraft with millions of pounds worth of Computer systems that are not as simple, nor an easy fix are not necessarily an advantage when deployed out into the field, after all what is the point of a VTOL F-35 if you cannot operate it in that environment in all weathers? Simplicity in numbers do have their advantages.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
NutLoose,
My post seems to have gone over your head.
It was in reference to doing training with live armed jets and alluded to the incident where a live armed RAF F4 shot down a Jag when the weapons switches weren’t covered with tape and various other holes in the cheese lined up….
My post seems to have gone over your head.
It was in reference to doing training with live armed jets and alluded to the incident where a live armed RAF F4 shot down a Jag when the weapons switches weren’t covered with tape and various other holes in the cheese lined up….
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Gotcha, my ex Jag Sqn. 
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Do you think they have let them out yet? it has been several months..
Hardly a secret - 3 of those fields have a lot of commercial traffic through every day - and lots of spotters
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Not strictly USAF, but another lesson learnt from the whole scale destruction of all resupply vehicles by battlefield drones. Note the timescale - evaluation during 2024 with a contract award at the end. As a bolt-on modification to existing vehicle fleets they could reach the front line as soon as 2025…
https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/20...mous-resupply/
GEARS of war: US Army picks 3 companies to advance autonomous resupply
WASHINGTON — The U.S. Army and the Defense Innovation Unit selected three companies to help create heavy-duty vehicles capable of independently navigating rugged terrain and restocking soldiers in the field.
Neya Systems, Robotic Research Autonomous Industries and Carnegie Robotics bested dozens of other contenders to conduct autonomy prototyping for the Ground Expeditionary Autonomous Retrofit System project, or GEARS.
The initial arrangements, announced earlier this month, are worth millions of dollars. Future phases will yield additional work and payouts.
“The name of the game of this program isn’t developing something new and novel,” Neya’s Kurt Bruck said in an interview. “The name of the game of this is to field autonomy.”
The Defense Department is pouring money into artificial intelligence, autonomy, computer vision and similar capabilities to augment future fighting. Robots and other advanced machinery can introduce additional firepower to the battlefield or explore areas considered too risky for human travel.
In this case, the Army and DIU are looking to existing commercial experts to embed autonomy aboard the Oshkosh-made Palletized Load System, a popular logistics and freight truck. Doing so will keep troops safe while also streamlining the flow of supplies, representatives from each company said.
“Convoys are one of the hottest targets of an enemy. If you can take out a convoy, you can do a major disruption of a resupply mission,” Bruck said. “Driving these vehicles is one of the most dangerous jobs in the DoD right now. If we can make them autonomous, we’ll get the soldiers out of harm’s way, but also we’re able to increase uptime. Soldiers have to sleep.”
The Russia-Ukraine war shows as much. Clogged vehicle columns and lumbering logistics lines were battered in the opening days of the conflict, now approaching its third year. They continue to be targeted.
The Army’s thinking on the matter is distilled into its contested logistics concept — an understanding that an opposing force, like Russia or China, will try to hamstring production and harass resupply with the intent of starving U.S. troops. The service earlier this year established a cross-functional team to tackle the issue.
“In the global war on terror, for the last 20 years, a combat logistics patrol could be a 15-vehicle, 20-vehicle convoy with security, and that is a large, slow, soft, moving target,” Phil Cotter, with Robotic Research, told Defense News.
“In the next fight, against an adversary that has long-range precision fires capability and advanced target identification and recognition capability, we’re going to have to fight in a more dispersed and distributed manner,” he added.
The agreements awarded to Robotic Research, Neya and Carnegie this month call for the delivery of four autonomous prototypes. They will be evaluated throughout fiscal 2024.
One contractor will eventually be picked to furnish a total 41 prototypes, according to the Army. Soldier feedback will inform the process, much like any other tech-development effort.
“We’re ready to go. They’ve given us a pretty tight timeline,” Carnegie’s Eric Soderberg said. “We have familiarity with, of course, all the sensors, and we’ve done similar automation projects. Really, it comes down to pulling those together to make this particular project work the way the Army wants it.”
Vehicles beyond the Palletized Load System are also being considered for conversion. The service did not specify make or model in its announcement, though.
“If you solve this problem well on a PLS truck,” Soderberg said, “you’re probably at a 95% solution for almost any other vehicle you could think of.”
https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/20...mous-resupply/
GEARS of war: US Army picks 3 companies to advance autonomous resupply
WASHINGTON — The U.S. Army and the Defense Innovation Unit selected three companies to help create heavy-duty vehicles capable of independently navigating rugged terrain and restocking soldiers in the field.
Neya Systems, Robotic Research Autonomous Industries and Carnegie Robotics bested dozens of other contenders to conduct autonomy prototyping for the Ground Expeditionary Autonomous Retrofit System project, or GEARS.
The initial arrangements, announced earlier this month, are worth millions of dollars. Future phases will yield additional work and payouts.
“The name of the game of this program isn’t developing something new and novel,” Neya’s Kurt Bruck said in an interview. “The name of the game of this is to field autonomy.”
The Defense Department is pouring money into artificial intelligence, autonomy, computer vision and similar capabilities to augment future fighting. Robots and other advanced machinery can introduce additional firepower to the battlefield or explore areas considered too risky for human travel.
In this case, the Army and DIU are looking to existing commercial experts to embed autonomy aboard the Oshkosh-made Palletized Load System, a popular logistics and freight truck. Doing so will keep troops safe while also streamlining the flow of supplies, representatives from each company said.
“Convoys are one of the hottest targets of an enemy. If you can take out a convoy, you can do a major disruption of a resupply mission,” Bruck said. “Driving these vehicles is one of the most dangerous jobs in the DoD right now. If we can make them autonomous, we’ll get the soldiers out of harm’s way, but also we’re able to increase uptime. Soldiers have to sleep.”
The Russia-Ukraine war shows as much. Clogged vehicle columns and lumbering logistics lines were battered in the opening days of the conflict, now approaching its third year. They continue to be targeted.
The Army’s thinking on the matter is distilled into its contested logistics concept — an understanding that an opposing force, like Russia or China, will try to hamstring production and harass resupply with the intent of starving U.S. troops. The service earlier this year established a cross-functional team to tackle the issue.
“In the global war on terror, for the last 20 years, a combat logistics patrol could be a 15-vehicle, 20-vehicle convoy with security, and that is a large, slow, soft, moving target,” Phil Cotter, with Robotic Research, told Defense News.
“In the next fight, against an adversary that has long-range precision fires capability and advanced target identification and recognition capability, we’re going to have to fight in a more dispersed and distributed manner,” he added.
The agreements awarded to Robotic Research, Neya and Carnegie this month call for the delivery of four autonomous prototypes. They will be evaluated throughout fiscal 2024.
One contractor will eventually be picked to furnish a total 41 prototypes, according to the Army. Soldier feedback will inform the process, much like any other tech-development effort.
“We’re ready to go. They’ve given us a pretty tight timeline,” Carnegie’s Eric Soderberg said. “We have familiarity with, of course, all the sensors, and we’ve done similar automation projects. Really, it comes down to pulling those together to make this particular project work the way the Army wants it.”
Vehicles beyond the Palletized Load System are also being considered for conversion. The service did not specify make or model in its announcement, though.
“If you solve this problem well on a PLS truck,” Soderberg said, “you’re probably at a 95% solution for almost any other vehicle you could think of.”
Actually what has surprised me most about Ukraine and Gaza is the effectiveness of GBADS. Kiev has faced regular heavy attacks from Drones, cruise missiles and even hyper-sonic missiles and yet claims to shoot down most of not all attacks. Likewise the Iron dome system in Israel seems to be able to very effectively keep its city's safe from mass attack. So maybe more investment and R&D in GBADS could keep large fixed bases safe ?
Hutch
Hutch
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Using $1M NSAM rounds against $10K drones isn’t a long term solution.
The US is rolling out laser equipped Strykers and other defences, it will take time to see which is most cost effective and capable.
The US is rolling out laser equipped Strykers and other defences, it will take time to see which is most cost effective and capable.
Should the F35s be dispersed from the carriers if ever serious hostilities look like breaking out in Europe involving the UK ?
lot of eggs in 1 basket
and presumably the aircraft might be tracked returning to mother?
lot of eggs in 1 basket
and presumably the aircraft might be tracked returning to mother?
Last edited by mahogany bob; 21st Dec 2023 at 16:09.