Operation Victor Search
Thread Starter
Operation Victor Search
An interesting article on the BBC website regarding the search for a prototype Victor B2 on 20 August 1959 which vanished during flight trials with the loss of 5 crew.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-66203375
Later in the article it states "It gave British authorities enough information to be reasonably satisfied about the cause of the accident. It was concluded that only minor changes were needed to resolve the problem that caused the crash, allowing the bomber to enter service in February 1962."
I have never heard of this incident before even though I flew with a lot of ex-Victor aircrew on the tanker fleet. As well as making fellow PPRuNe readers aware of the article, I wonder if it would stir any interesting memories that others would find helpful?
I'm mindful that the 1950s was an era when a lot of lessons were learned about metal fatigue and stress with Comet and Valiant particularly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-66203375
Later in the article it states "It gave British authorities enough information to be reasonably satisfied about the cause of the accident. It was concluded that only minor changes were needed to resolve the problem that caused the crash, allowing the bomber to enter service in February 1962."
I have never heard of this incident before even though I flew with a lot of ex-Victor aircrew on the tanker fleet. As well as making fellow PPRuNe readers aware of the article, I wonder if it would stir any interesting memories that others would find helpful?
I'm mindful that the 1950s was an era when a lot of lessons were learned about metal fatigue and stress with Comet and Valiant particularly.
Gentleman Aviator
Always thought codewords/nicknames were not supposed to compromise the nature of the Op. Operation VICTOR SEARCH seems to be a bit of a giveaway........
Before I was born but I saw the article earlier and did some digging.
XH668 which was a B.1 modified on the production line with a new mainplane and changes to take Conways (apparently the B.2 contract precluded a prototype) was being used by the A&AEE for trials, the investigation believed that the loss of the starboard pitot (due to errosion of an excessively thick paint layer against which it had been secured) caused the automatic lowering of flaps, contradictory IASs and an erroneous stall warning leading to both the aircraft and the pilot(s) taking action to lower the nose to gain speed and an unrecoverable situation. The design of the collets used to secure the pitot was modified and I understand the nose flaps (which I understand operateed in addition to the leading edge flaps) were locked in postion on production B.2s as they were deemed not necessary.
Details in this article:
https://www.key.aero/article/testing-tragedy
Crew:
Sqn Ldr R J Morgan (pilot)
Sqn Ldr G B Stockman (co-pilot)
Flt Lt L N Williams (navigator)
Flt Lt R J Hannaford (AEO)
Bob Williams (HP chief flight test observer)
XH668 which was a B.1 modified on the production line with a new mainplane and changes to take Conways (apparently the B.2 contract precluded a prototype) was being used by the A&AEE for trials, the investigation believed that the loss of the starboard pitot (due to errosion of an excessively thick paint layer against which it had been secured) caused the automatic lowering of flaps, contradictory IASs and an erroneous stall warning leading to both the aircraft and the pilot(s) taking action to lower the nose to gain speed and an unrecoverable situation. The design of the collets used to secure the pitot was modified and I understand the nose flaps (which I understand operateed in addition to the leading edge flaps) were locked in postion on production B.2s as they were deemed not necessary.
Details in this article:
https://www.key.aero/article/testing-tragedy
Crew:
Sqn Ldr R J Morgan (pilot)
Sqn Ldr G B Stockman (co-pilot)
Flt Lt L N Williams (navigator)
Flt Lt R J Hannaford (AEO)
Bob Williams (HP chief flight test observer)
Although Boscombe Flying Orders stated that prototype aircraft should maintain communications with the ground, XH668 was regarded as a new mark of an existing type, doing nothing that had not already been done by HP, and so it was not technically considered to be a prototype. Furthermore, due to weather vagaries and the large distances covered at high speed, preflight submission of a precise flight plan was not expected. Therefore, Boscombe had only a rough idea of when and where the crew intended to operate. It was only because Sqn Ldr Morgan had arranged with Boscombe’s Performance Division to photograph the Victor’s landing run that anyone noticed anything amiss as early as they did. At around 13:10hrs a telephone call was made from the Performance Division to Air Traffic, to ask for XH668’s estimated time of arrival. After an element of confusion because no one on the ground was exactly sure how long Sqn Ldr Morgan intended to stay airborne, ‘overdue’ action was not taken until 15:03hrs. By then, XH668 had long since disappeared from the sky… and in a catastrophic manner.
Last edited by SLXOwft; 23rd Jul 2023 at 15:49. Reason: Add quote
Thread Starter
SLXOwft
Thanks for your really helpful post. I note that the Key.Aero link is only for subscribers but the information you have provided shows that, not for the first time, a very small detail on a large airframe can be catastrophic for the crew.
I didn't do any of my own digging first as I know that there is a wealth of knowledge and experience on the forum and some may be stuck indoors on another grey and rainy day in the middle of the British summer!
Thanks
Thanks for your really helpful post. I note that the Key.Aero link is only for subscribers but the information you have provided shows that, not for the first time, a very small detail on a large airframe can be catastrophic for the crew.
I didn't do any of my own digging first as I know that there is a wealth of knowledge and experience on the forum and some may be stuck indoors on another grey and rainy day in the middle of the British summer!
Thanks
There is a book about the search operation called "Operation Victor Search" by Douglas Koster.
I have a copy somewhere. As I remember it mainly concentrates on the search and recovery operation,
I have a copy somewhere. As I remember it mainly concentrates on the search and recovery operation,
I remember being told about this by the late John 'Farmer' Steele, a happy Hunter hero friend of my father. I didn't know what a pitot tube was at the time, so he explained. Another piece of aeronautical knowledge which added to my store of interest leading up to my eventual application to join the RAF 7 years later..
Thread Starter
ORAC
Thanks for providing the link. The brief report has answered another couple of questions that were in my head particularly why nobody ejected. It's sad that the Captain saw things happening and possibly left it too late or was outside of parameters.
I remember sitting in the back seats of a Victor and being told that those ejectors were a twist and push type to exit out of the port door. It never appealed to me as a survival aid as there was still the wing, engine intakes and the large T-tail to contend with.
I'm sure that Beagle will remind us of the escape issues with the VC10 K3 which is why the port side door was welded up.
Thanks for providing the link. The brief report has answered another couple of questions that were in my head particularly why nobody ejected. It's sad that the Captain saw things happening and possibly left it too late or was outside of parameters.
I remember sitting in the back seats of a Victor and being told that those ejectors were a twist and push type to exit out of the port door. It never appealed to me as a survival aid as there was still the wing, engine intakes and the large T-tail to contend with.
I'm sure that Beagle will remind us of the escape issues with the VC10 K3 which is why the port side door was welded up.
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If you can find a copy of At the Edge of the Envelope (A flight test engineer's story) by John Bradley, it will give you some further background as well as a description of subsequent A&AEE testing related to the accident.
John was a lovely man, and a mentor at Boscombe to me and many, many others. Sadly missed.
John was a lovely man, and a mentor at Boscombe to me and many, many others. Sadly missed.
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ORAC
Thanks for providing the link. The brief report has answered another couple of questions that were in my head particularly why nobody ejected. It's sad that the Captain saw things happening and possibly left it too late or was outside of parameters.
I remember sitting in the back seats of a Victor and being told that those ejectors were a twist and push type to exit out of the port door. It never appealed to me as a survival aid as there was still the wing, engine intakes and the large T-tail to contend with.
I'm sure that Beagle will remind us of the escape issues with the VC10 K3 which is why the port side door was welded up.
Thanks for providing the link. The brief report has answered another couple of questions that were in my head particularly why nobody ejected. It's sad that the Captain saw things happening and possibly left it too late or was outside of parameters.
I remember sitting in the back seats of a Victor and being told that those ejectors were a twist and push type to exit out of the port door. It never appealed to me as a survival aid as there was still the wing, engine intakes and the large T-tail to contend with.
I'm sure that Beagle will remind us of the escape issues with the VC10 K3 which is why the port side door was welded up.
It was just disarmed and made an ideal bin with a bin bag slotted into the chute part , especially with it being opposite the galley.
Still, better than sliding out of it and becoming fly splatter on the wing.
Re the Victor, I read somewhere that on a real evacuation the crew reported problems getting the door open, the door was apparently fine, but the sim one they used to practice the procedure on had got so worn over the years, it was far easier to open, something the crew were not expecting in real life, hence the difficulty.
