Haythornthwaite Review of Armed Forces Incentivisation
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
trim it out - I have no idea why the AAC continue with the Soldier Pilot scheme. They end up way more expensive overall compared to direct entry officer entry but have less utility other than as a “driver airframe” and now an instant WO2 after training? The Senior and Junior Services seem to have latched onto this higher cost over lower utility fact, how come the AAC and their Army masters haven’t had that epiphany yet?
I would agree the Warrant Officer after pilot training would be a serious misstep. The Army may be more and more specialized with very technical trade groups, but currently if you carry rank in the Army, you are expected to have the experience and knowledge to discharge the duties of that rank. It would be hard to see how anyone with a limited purview of Army operations would be able to do that with little more than 5 years service - unless they created a "specialist" group of Aviation WO2 who stayed firmly in that lane. Not sure how interactions with the 15 year Warrant Officers would go in that scenario. The Army has proven a couple of good points over the years, (1) Flying is a young persons game, the sooner you grab them the more utility you get, (2) You don't need rank or a commission to be an effective battlefield pilot. The move to WO2 would seem to indicate either the lesson hasn't stuck, or it's simply a mechanism to increase pay bands that will surely end badly.
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All NCO pilots have at least 4 years service before attending the Army Pilots course, some will be AAC ground-crew and have experience and direct knowledge of Aviation Operations, but many others will be from across a broad selection of the rest of the Army. It is this cross-section that contributes to the All-Arms battle knowledge that helps Aviation understand intimately the ground commanders intent when providing support. Having Artillery, Infantry and Combat Service Support soldier pilots is a great example of getting "utility" from "drivers, airframe". NCO pilots are not as distracted by the burden of command, career courses, Staff College and moving up the Monkey Tree before set age limits as Officers are, so they naturally get more flying experience and generally become almost like PAS was intended to be - a group of experienced and professional aviators. The "high cost" is a red herring. Service continuity and experience carry a price, that is what the Army pays for with experienced NCO pilots.
I would agree the Warrant Officer after pilot training would be a serious misstep. The Army may be more and more specialized with very technical trade groups, but currently if you carry rank in the Army, you are expected to have the experience and knowledge to discharge the duties of that rank. It would be hard to see how anyone with a limited purview of Army operations would be able to do that with little more than 5 years service - unless they created a "specialist" group of Aviation WO2 who stayed firmly in that lane. Not sure how interactions with the 15 year Warrant Officers would go in that scenario. The Army has proven a couple of good points over the years, (1) Flying is a young persons game, the sooner you grab them the more utility you get, (2) You don't need rank or a commission to be an effective battlefield pilot. The move to WO2 would seem to indicate either the lesson hasn't stuck, or it's simply a mechanism to increase pay bands that will surely end badly.
I would agree the Warrant Officer after pilot training would be a serious misstep. The Army may be more and more specialized with very technical trade groups, but currently if you carry rank in the Army, you are expected to have the experience and knowledge to discharge the duties of that rank. It would be hard to see how anyone with a limited purview of Army operations would be able to do that with little more than 5 years service - unless they created a "specialist" group of Aviation WO2 who stayed firmly in that lane. Not sure how interactions with the 15 year Warrant Officers would go in that scenario. The Army has proven a couple of good points over the years, (1) Flying is a young persons game, the sooner you grab them the more utility you get, (2) You don't need rank or a commission to be an effective battlefield pilot. The move to WO2 would seem to indicate either the lesson hasn't stuck, or it's simply a mechanism to increase pay bands that will surely end badly.
This will not help retention
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66020261
Always knew that we were going to get shafted in comparison to others however, expect 3.5%. The “offer” is no longer valid and I fully expect that there will be a huge increase in people leaving the Service in the next 12 months, including me.
I fear for the RAF because it’s not the pilots or lack of that will hurt us, but the TG1 exodus.
Always knew that we were going to get shafted in comparison to others however, expect 3.5%. The “offer” is no longer valid and I fully expect that there will be a huge increase in people leaving the Service in the next 12 months, including me.
I fear for the RAF because it’s not the pilots or lack of that will hurt us, but the TG1 exodus.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66020261
Always knew that we were going to get shafted in comparison to others however, expect 3.5%. The “offer” is no longer valid and I fully expect that there will be a huge increase in people leaving the Service in the next 12 months, including me.
I fear for the RAF because it’s not the pilots or lack of that will hurt us, but the TG1 exodus.
Always knew that we were going to get shafted in comparison to others however, expect 3.5%. The “offer” is no longer valid and I fully expect that there will be a huge increase in people leaving the Service in the next 12 months, including me.
I fear for the RAF because it’s not the pilots or lack of that will hurt us, but the TG1 exodus.
Toadstool
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66020261
Always knew that we were going to get shafted in comparison to others however, expect 3.5%. The “offer” is no longer valid and I fully expect that there will be a huge increase in people leaving the Service in the next 12 months, including me.
I fear for the RAF because it’s not the pilots or lack of that will hurt us, but the TG1 exodus.
Always knew that we were going to get shafted in comparison to others however, expect 3.5%. The “offer” is no longer valid and I fully expect that there will be a huge increase in people leaving the Service in the next 12 months, including me.
I fear for the RAF because it’s not the pilots or lack of that will hurt us, but the TG1 exodus.
BV
😉Agreed, but when an organisation that constantly stands in for other organisations when those organisations strike for more pay but the stand in constantly gets shafted because they are free labour then it’s about worth. And that’s for starters.
Toadstool
Agreed. One of many reasons sadly.
I personally couldn’t believe it when it happened, but people always told me that when it was time to leave, you’d know. For me it was very stark. I loved my 23 years but when another job offer came and it coincided with some admin chafe that got on my nerves it was like a lightning bolt. My mind was made up. Thankfully manning were excellent and I was out in record time.
From the outside looking in it certainly feels like, if I hadn’t already left, I’d be heading for the door anyway. There has been no good news in the ten months since I left and I think I’d hate still being in right now. Everything I have seen since I left has only served to validate my decision.
BV
I personally couldn’t believe it when it happened, but people always told me that when it was time to leave, you’d know. For me it was very stark. I loved my 23 years but when another job offer came and it coincided with some admin chafe that got on my nerves it was like a lightning bolt. My mind was made up. Thankfully manning were excellent and I was out in record time.
From the outside looking in it certainly feels like, if I hadn’t already left, I’d be heading for the door anyway. There has been no good news in the ten months since I left and I think I’d hate still being in right now. Everything I have seen since I left has only served to validate my decision.
BV
Agreed. One of many reasons sadly.
I personally couldn’t believe it when it happened, but people always told me that when it was time to leave, you’d know. For me it was very stark. I loved my 23 years but when another job offer came and it coincided with some admin chafe that got on my nerves it was like a lightning bolt. My mind was made up. Thankfully manning were excellent and I was out in record time.
From the outside looking in it certainly feels like, if I hadn’t already left, I’d be heading for the door anyway. There has been no good news in the ten months since I left and I think I’d hate still being in right now. Everything I have seen since I left has only served to validate my decision.
BV
I personally couldn’t believe it when it happened, but people always told me that when it was time to leave, you’d know. For me it was very stark. I loved my 23 years but when another job offer came and it coincided with some admin chafe that got on my nerves it was like a lightning bolt. My mind was made up. Thankfully manning were excellent and I was out in record time.
From the outside looking in it certainly feels like, if I hadn’t already left, I’d be heading for the door anyway. There has been no good news in the ten months since I left and I think I’d hate still being in right now. Everything I have seen since I left has only served to validate my decision.
BV
I’ve had a fantastic time in the RAF and thoroughly enjoyed my flying (being flown) career. A good friend of mine left 3 years ago and he was the same, when you know it’s time to leave, it’s time. I’ve still got 6 years left however I want to leave with a smile on my face rather than being bitter and twisted.
I’d recommend the RAF to anyone however increasing FGens, duty commitments, daily changing priorities and a 30% increase in workload due to workforce constraints takes its toll over a long career.
The PM praising the military on another (working) Armed Forces Day then telling us to take the hit with another less than average pay increase during a cost of living crisis is my straw that broke..
I have read the report in detail now and, if implemented, the recommendations will make a difference. As previous posters have noted though, without adequate pay (and I mean adequate, not any great riches) it’s difficult to see how MoD are going to stem the outflow and retain experience. I predict that when this year’s pay award is made, probably in September, Wallace will stand up and quote the most recent inflation figure as proof that the award isn’t far below inflation (because it will be below), failing to note that the award was due in April when inflation was around 9%. A colleague of mine noted that since 2008 his pay had increased by 18% while inflation had risen by 43%.
I think that there will always be a belief in the military that rank and pay are highly correlated (apart from doctors…GP average pay £72000 compared with well over £100000 in the military where working conditions are also much better for them…go figure). A FJ pilot five years out of the OCU will probably be on £52500….how is possible to justify this? Oh, that includes a 14.5% X factor uplift for being in the military.
I think that there will always be a belief in the military that rank and pay are highly correlated (apart from doctors…GP average pay £72000 compared with well over £100000 in the military where working conditions are also much better for them…go figure). A FJ pilot five years out of the OCU will probably be on £52500….how is possible to justify this? Oh, that includes a 14.5% X factor uplift for being in the military.