Haythornthwaite Review of Armed Forces Incentivisation

[RAFEngO74to09]

Published here: https://qna.files.parliament.uk/ws-attachments/1645419/original/14.278_MOD_HRAFI_headline_report_WEB.pdf

[SLXOwft]

I recommend a thorough read, I have just had a quick scan so far there seems to be a lot that makes sense - and not just things I have suggested; it may be a curate's egg but that may be my age, sex, and anti-woke perspective.

[Gordon Brown]

PLEASE, if we are going to have a sensible and measured conversation about this report, can we FOR ONCE avoid the tedious stories about what it was like in the ‘good old days’?

[Timelord]

The gist seems to be pay people for what they know and what they do rather than what rank they are and be more flexible with postings / lifestyle etc to suit each individual. Good plan.

[NutLoose]

I would have thought
Pay,
Accomodation,
Food,
Promotion,
Postings.

would be the main criteria.

[SamYeager]

Originally Posted by SLXOwft

I have just had a quick scan so far there seems to be a lot that makes sense

Well that will never do - obviously this report needs to be kicked into the long grass and otherwise ignored.

[langleybaston]

Originally Posted by Gordon Brown

PLEASE, if we are going to have a sensible and measured conversation about this report, can we FOR ONCE avoid the tedious stories about what it was like in the ‘good old days’?

Is it OK to talk about the bad old days?

[kintyred]

I have very little confidence that MoD will do anything meaningful with this report. When the recommendations of the Bett report, nearly 30 years ago, are only just being implemented and the SoS content to receive a report from the AFPRB two months after the pay award should be implemented (if you’re hoping to see the extra money in your pay packet soon don’t hold your breath). The report notes that SP have received pay increases below the national average every year since FY 2016/17 so until there is a serious will to address the erosion of pay I doubt very much whether MoD can hope to offer a better experience for SP.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Crikey, refreshing to read something that tells it how it is and sets out sensible steps to fix the issues. Recommended reading!

I think there's one prediction from the report that is telling however:
"Do not cherry pick" .... *Cherry picks*

Given the government's recent trend for commissioning sensible reports and then totally ignoring them, I think it's safe to say 90% of the (very sensible) recommendations won't be implemented.

[The B Word]

Originally Posted by Timelord

The gist seems to be pay people for what they know and what they do rather than what rank they are and be more flexible with postings / lifestyle etc to suit each individual. Good plan.

That is not what it says. It more offers a balance between time served, skills and rank - probably more like PAS that tips a nod to those things.If you think that Sgt Aircrew are going to earn the same as Air Cdre Aircrew, then you’ve been smoking something whacky!

[alfred_the_great]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

I would have thought
Pay,
Accomodation,
Food,
Promotion,
Postings.

would be the main criteria.

not in that order: good enough pay is repeatedly noted as a strong hygiene factor, but very rarely the thing that provokes someone to leave.

[Bob Viking]

AtG

You might be right but in my case I know I could have put up with alot more for alot longer if the pay for staying in could have come close to matching the pay outside.

Maybe money isn’t the number one thing that makes you leave but it certainly gives you a bloody firm nudge. Especially nowadays.

BV

[alfred_the_great]

Originally Posted by Bob Viking

You might be right but in my case I know I could have put up with alot more for alot longer if the pay for staying in could have come close to matching the pay outside.

Maybe money isn’t the number one thing that makes you leave but it certainly gives you a bloody firm nudge. Especially nowadays.

BV

to be brutal - that was probably because you were a) old and b) presumably has niche SQEP.

against that c50% of ORs leave at or around the 5 year mark, and OR1-3 are the biggest chunk of our people, so it needs to be viewed in that context.

[Countdown begins]

Originally Posted by The B Word

That is not what it says. It more offers a balance between time served, skills and rank - probably more like PAS that tips a nod to those things.If you think that Sgt Aircrew are going to earn the same as Air Cdre Aircrew, then you’ve been smoking something whacky!

Are you implying the Air Commodore knows nothing?

[Bob Viking]

AtG

I left at age 45 which I don’t think is especially old. As a FJ QFI I guess that’s counts as niche SQEP though. And just an all round awesome human being. Obvs.

BV

[[email protected]]

And just an all round awesome human being. Obvs.

That's what they tell all you FJ mates who never got selected to fly helicopters​​​​​​​

[Bob Viking]

Crab

Originally Posted by [email protected]

That's what they tell all you FJ mates who never got selected to fly helicopters

Bravo. Touché.

BV

[trim it out]

Originally Posted by The B Word

That is not what it says. It more offers a balance between time served, skills and rank - probably more like PAS that tips a nod to those things.If you think that Sgt Aircrew are going to earn the same as Air Cdre Aircrew, then you’ve been smoking something whacky!

The AAC is making moves towards this under Proj MORDEN, where it is looking likely that NCO pilots will be promoted to WO2 post CTR and join a bespoke pay spine, basically a diet PES(A). This is to break the link between rank and pay in order to reward more on individuals' KSE-B.

[Lima Juliet]

trim it out - I have no idea why the AAC continue with the Soldier Pilot scheme. They end up way more expensive overall compared to direct entry officer entry but have less utility other than as a “driver airframe” and now an instant WO2 after training? The Senior and Junior Services seem to have latched onto this higher cost over lower utility fact, how come the AAC and their Army masters haven’t had that epiphany yet?

[alfred_the_great]

Originally Posted by Lima Juliet

trim it out - I have no idea why the AAC continue with the Soldier Pilot scheme. They end up way more expensive overall compared to direct entry officer entry but have less utility other than as a “driver airframe” and now an instant WO2 after training? The Senior and Junior Services seem to have latched onto this higher cost over lower utility fact, how come the AAC and their Army masters haven’t had that epiphany yet?

because under the Army Officer career structure, there is no real way to create the multi-1000 hour Capt and Maj DE AAC officers.