USN F-5N Accident - 31 May 23

[RAFEngO74to09]

F-5N "Aggressor" of VFC-111 (Reserve composite training sqn) lost off the coast of Key West, FL.

Pilot ejected safely using a newly upgraded Martin-Baker Mk US16J seat, and recovered by MH-60S from NAS Key West, FL.

[SpazSinbad]

Navy F-5 Jet Crashes Near Key West - Seapower (seapowermagazine.org)
Nice looking machine indeed [Sundowners an alternative sobriquet for VF805] : "ARLINGTON, Va. — A U.S. Navy F-5N Tiger II jet crashed near Key West. Florida, on May 31, the Navy said. Naval Air Station (NAS) Key West said in a Facebook post that the aircraft’s pilot “ejected from an F-5N aircraft approximately 25 miles from Boca Chica Field at approximately 9:20 a.m. today. A NAS Key West Search and Rescue crew launched an MH-60S helicopter and rescued the pilot, who is being transported to a Miami-area hospital for further evaluation.” The pilot and F-5N were assigned to Fighter Squadron Composite (VFC) 111, which is a reserve adversary squadron based at NAS Key West...."
https://seapowermagazine.org/wp-cont...-KM072-010.jpg

[RAFEngO74to09]

My favorite F-5N "Aggressor" scheme is this from VMFT-401 at MCAS Yuma, AZ

[NIREP reader]

In my naivety I these had all retired being replaced by F-16s' and F-15s'. Glad the pilot survived and can give feedback.

[SpazSinbad]

Plenty of info on the web about the upgraded F-5N - an example "Martin-Baker successfully installed the 1st US16J ejection seat" : Navy’s F-5 modernization program completes engineering phase and moves into production and deployment | NAVAIR & Martin-Baker Installs 1st US Navy F-5 Seat Upgrade – Martin Baker

[Lonewolf_50]

Thanks for the pictures, that's a beautiful aircraft.
Sorry to see one stricken from the list, and glad to see that the Silk One Departure worked.

[sandiego89]

Originally Posted by SpazSinbad

Plenty of info on the web about the upgraded F-5N - an example "Martin-Baker successfully installed the 1st US16J ejection seat" : Navy’s F-5 modernization program completes engineering phase and moves into production and deployment | NAVAIR & Martin-Baker Installs 1st US Navy F-5 Seat Upgrade – Martin Baker

Seems quite a few front line operators of F-5's and other older types could use a seat upgrade (if these can or choose to afford it)

[Stitchbitch]

Originally Posted by sandiego89

Seems quite a few front line operators of F-5's and other older types could use a seat upgrade (if these can or choose to afford it)

I see quite a few F-5/T-38 are now MB, makes sense to replace the bang seat as seat survival technology has moved on since Northrop made theirs.

[tdracer]

Side question - what (if any) differences are there between an F-5 and a T-38?

[megan]

Number of seats is about all td, fuselage stretch naturally to accomodate.

[Jobza Guddun]

td may have meant the difference between an F-5B/F and a T-38 rather than the single-seater.

[SLXOwft]

Originally Posted by Jobza Guddun

td may have meant the difference between an F-5B/F and a T-38 rather than the single-seater.

F-5's most visual difference is the LERX. Also F5s are equiped with AN/APQ-159 Radar, RWR, Chaff dispenser and can carry and fire real armament (ignoring the small number of AT-38s and those used at Edwards for weapon system trials) .

They've lasted well considering I first saw some of these same airframes at Alconbury with the 527th TFTAS 40 + years ago, still love the 'Aggressor' schemes.

[fdr]

apart from weapons systems, the F-5 all models, has LE flaps, he T-38 has only TE flaps.

[SpazSinbad]

HOLD that TIGER - Hold that Tiger (repeat chorus): https://sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploa...-F5N-Tiger.jpg (0.5Mb)

[oldmansquipper]

The Northrop seat was pretty basic and very low tech. MB initially fitted their advanced and very capable seat to the NASA T38s as a ‘loss leader’. USAF are generally pretty anti MB (conversely, after Viet Nam, USN think MB seats are wonderful) but they lost quite a few T38/F5/crews in low level accidents/incidents and finally ‘saw the light’. USAF eventually fitted the MB seats and the retrofit programme started around 2012. World wide operators also began to see the benefits shortly after. I gather the Aggressor F5 jets came into the fold around 2019.

[megan]

And the ultimate that was never to be.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Side question - what (if any) differences are there between an F-5 and a T-38?

ISTR that the wing construction on the T38 was different in that it used a honeycomb internal structure, but I cannot find any confirmation that the F5 doesn't have this.

Re the F20, I was in SOAF when Erik the Boss came back from the demo of the F20, with its unusual (for the time) laser gyro systems being seen as the USP. He wasn't impressed, knowing that the far more capable F16 would be available before too long.

[Miles Magister]

I thought that the F5/20 was a single seat version of the T38. The T38 being designed to fit the requirement for a supersonic advanced trainer, whilst producing a successful and capable aircraft I heard from test pilots that the requirement to be supersonic limited the qualities in other flight regimes.

[sandiego89]

Originally Posted by Miles Magister

I thought that the F5/20 was a single seat version of the T38. The T38 being designed to fit the requirement for a supersonic advanced trainer, whilst producing a successful and capable aircraft I heard from test pilots that the requirement to be supersonic limited the qualities in other flight regimes.

I would not consider the F-5 a single seat version of the T-38. Both were derived from the N-156 design and obviously have a lot in common but there are subtle differences in appearance, beneath the skin, and roles. There are also 2 seat F-5's. F-5 has larger intakes, different wing structure and leading edge extensions, different avionics, different landing gear/tires, weapon pylons and the wingtip sidewinder rails. The E and F models were substantially improved and a further changed from the baseline, including radar, improved avionics....

​​​​​

[SLXOwft]

The F-5G/F-20 was the child of late 70s FMS/Export of Sensitive Technology politics and then came Reagan and a less restrictive viewpoint.