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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Old 15th February 2024 | 11:20
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
Some updates.



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Old 15th February 2024 | 11:21
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
The Netherlands to join the Drone programme for Ukraine.

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Old 15th February 2024 | 11:42
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
Another day another sacking, Russians are now reporting that Admiral Viktor Solov has been fired due to the sinking of the Caesar Kunikov.

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Old 15th February 2024 | 11:44
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
Russia's secret weapons revealed...

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Old 15th February 2024 | 11:52
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
I wish them well in repositioning.

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Old 15th February 2024 | 11:59
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
Adviikva from the Russians point of view.

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Old 15th February 2024 | 12:08
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
It looks like another large Russian convoy was hit in the Adviikva region.

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Old 15th February 2024 | 13:26
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From: Rhone-Alpes
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Couldn't Biden preposition extra vehicles and weapons in support of NATO in the likes of Poland, build up a veritable stockpile of Bradley's, Patriot missiles, Stingers, Ammo etc, then if and when the budget is sorted, simply transfer them across the border into Ukraine? That would at least cut down the transportation time.


The Army’s prepositioned stock for Europe, called APS-2, include vehicles and weapons in Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, and Poland that U.S. troops can use without waiting weeks for their home-based equipment to arrive on ships.. By the late 1980s, the plan had evolved to pre-position Six Divisions of equipment in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany.
https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2...forces/361530/


Looks like you were pre-empted there by half-a-century , Nutty. I believe that the REFORGER ( REturn of FORces to GERmany ) exercises conducted since the 60's relied on equipment in POMCUS sites ( (Prepositioning Of Materiel Configured in Unit Sets) set up 1960 onwards ).

Last edited by Tartiflette Fan; 15th February 2024 at 13:50.
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Old 15th February 2024 | 13:37
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
One would assume with the US troops already in position they are being used, one was thinking more along the lines of transferring stuff from stocks that Ukraine wants, at least to Poland in a back door sort of way, to get supplies to the region, then when the US finally get their thumbs out of their bums and ok the aid, they are already there and ready to go.
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Old 15th February 2024 | 13:44
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From: Texas
Originally Posted by WideScreen
A bit "off-topic", though this dingy does not sound that good for the US it's carrier-based supremacy. Fire a couple of them to the mothership and it goes down to the bottom like Russian warships, having zero defense options against the Tsirkon. Could become pretty costly, losing both the carrier as well as its airplanes, having no place to go for landing.
I'd say it's very much on topic, as a 'lesson learned' for maritime warfare. I have a suspicion that various folks at NAVSEA (Naval Sea Systems Command) have been working on this issue for a while, and even as far back as after the attack on the USS Cole. (Yes, in the USN, CIWS used to have a surface attack capability, but I am some years out of date on that).
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Couldn't Biden preposition extra vehicles and weapons in support of NATO in the likes of Poland, build up a veritable stockpile of Bradley's, Patriot missiles, Stingers, Ammo etc, then if and when the budget is sorted, simply transfer them across the border into Ukraine? That would at least cut down the transportation time.
The trick is to get those pre-positioned assets which Tartiflette Fan mentioned (intended for US Forces to use when deployed) turned over to an ally ... that could require some political deal making. See also the recent ploy to pass stuff to Greece ,who then passes stuff to Ukraine.
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Old 15th February 2024 | 14:08
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From: Rhone-Alpes
Originally Posted by NutLoose
One would assume with the US troops already in position they are being used, one was thinking more along the lines of transferring stuff from stocks that Ukraine wants, at least to Poland in a back door sort of way, to get supplies to the region, then when the US finally get their thumbs out of their bums and ok the aid, they are already there and ready to go.
Read it but didn't really understand it . You seem to be saying that the US should have foreseen this type of conflict - is that correct ? If you are, it doesn't seem very reasonable, as top military folk were still saying "Yes he will/, no he won't " in early Feb 2022.

Does "being used" mean deployed from depots: but if so where? The M! and M2 definitely came from the US in desert camouflage.

EDIT: Re-read and speculate that maybe there are doctrines in place that don't allow POMCUS to be used for anything other than WW3 ( or WW3 exercises ) and so it was easier to use existing laws that allow the US to transfer defence stocks to allied powers at little or no cost other than transport ( as posited by LW50 above )

Last edited by Tartiflette Fan; 15th February 2024 at 14:22.
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Old 15th February 2024 | 14:30
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan
Read it but didn't really understand it . You seem to be saying that the US should have foreseen this type of conflict - is that correct ? If you are, it doesn't seem very reasonable, as top military folk were still saying "Yes he will/, no he won't " in early Feb 2022.

Does "being used" mean deployed from depots: but if so where? The M! and M2 definitely came from the US in desert camouflage.

EDIT: Re-read and speculate that maybe there are doctrines in place that don't allow POMCUS to be used for anything other than WW3 ( or WW3 exercises ) and so it was easier to use existing laws that allow the US to transfer defence stocks to allied powers at little or no cost other than transport ( as posited by LW50 above )
As a practical matter, someone in the J4 of the Joint Chiefs would need to figure out - if something like this were to be approved - a time line for the proposed depletion of POMCUS stock and the backfill by MTMC (or whatever acronym they use now) from CONUS (or other) assets.
In plainer English: if 20 Bradleys were to be moved from a POMCUS site to somewhere in Ukraine, 20 others would need to show up in a port somewhere, get on a ship, and make it across to (wherever that POMCUS site is) to return that warehouse's stock level to the required number.
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Old 15th February 2024 | 15:12
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From: Rhone-Alpes
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
As a practical matter, someone in the J4 of the Joint Chiefs would need to figure out - if something like this were to be approved - a time line for the proposed depletion of POMCUS stock and the backfill by MTMC (or whatever acronym they use now) from CONUS (or other) assets.
In plainer English: if 20 Bradleys were to be moved from a POMCUS site to somewhere in Ukraine, 20 others would need to show up in a port somewhere, get on a ship, and make it across to (wherever that POMCUS site is) to return that warehouse's stock level to the required number.
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just pure curiosiy here LW, but would there be a time-limit between exit-time and entry to port/entrainemnt or entering POMCUS ? I ask mainly to enquire just how closely the military body feels the need to nail down every step forward.
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Old 15th February 2024 | 16:15
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
As a practical matter, someone in the J4 of the Joint Chiefs would need to figure out - if something like this were to be approved - a time line for the proposed depletion of POMCUS stock and the backfill by MTMC (or whatever acronym they use now) from CONUS (or other) assets.
In plainer English: if 20 Bradleys were to be moved from a POMCUS site to somewhere in Ukraine, 20 others would need to show up in a port somewhere, get on a ship, and make it across to (wherever that POMCUS site is) to return that warehouse's stock level to the required number.
Yes, but what I am suggesting is say the stocks held in Poland amount to 500 Bradleys, and the Army on arrival utilise 300, so the US would need to add 300 more to bring the stored stocks back up to date.
Now say Ukraine in its list of wants has asked for 100 more Bradleys, is there anything to stop the US military transferring not 300 more but 400 more to Poland meaning they are over stocked by 100. I.E increasing the stock holding.

They are still on the US stockholdings so are not breaking any laws re the block on aid, but are right next door to Ukraine, so if and when the aid green light is given, they are already next to where they need to be and do not have to wait for 100 to be drawn from US stocks at home and shipped... does that make sense, same goes for everything else requested, it's just an inventory shift, moving items from the US storage to European storage ready for when requested and approved.
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Old 15th February 2024 | 16:45
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From: Peripatetic
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...n-war-planners

‘A lot higher than we expected’: Russian arms production worries Europe’s planners

Moscow has massively ramped up its industry, giving it advantages in the war and leading to a redistribution of wealth
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Old 15th February 2024 | 17:17
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From: Peripatetic
Hmmm, a few thousand of those would be handy on Ukraine’s new generations of drones….

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/we...lide-munition/

GBU-69 Small Glide Munition
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Old 15th February 2024 | 18:02
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From: NL
Originally Posted by ORAC
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...n-war-planners

‘A lot higher than we expected’: Russian arms production worries Europe’s planners

Moscow has massively ramped up its industry, giving it advantages in the war and leading to a redistribution of wealth
Perhaps not surprising considering their losses. But for how long can they sustain this?
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Old 15th February 2024 | 18:18
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From: Washington.
Originally Posted by FUMR
Perhaps not surprising considering their losses. But for how long can they sustain this?
A few well-placed explosions could affect that.
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Old 15th February 2024 | 18:36
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From: Rhone-Alpes
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Yes, but what I am suggesting is say the stocks held in Poland amount to 500 Bradleys, and the Army on arrival utilise 300, so the US would need to add 300 more to bring the stored stocks back up to date.
Now say Ukraine in its list of wants has asked for 100 more Bradleys, is there anything to stop the US military transferring not 300 more but 400 more to Poland meaning they are over stocked by 100. I.E increasing the stock holding.

They are still on the US stockholdings so are not breaking any laws re the block on aid, but are right next door to Ukraine, so if and when the aid green light is given, they are already next to where they need to be and do not have to wait for 100 to be drawn from US stocks at home and shipped... does that make sense, same goes for everything else requested, it's just an inventory shift, moving items from the US storage to European storage ready for when requested and approved.
You are not being at all realistic. Being in POMCUS is 100% US property, and control, transferring them to Ukrainian control /use ( and possible destruction ) is 100% something else. Some organisations might faciitate that, but it doesn't seem tht the the US can/would.. If you don't agree , give examples of where it has been done.

Last edited by Tartiflette Fan; 15th February 2024 at 19:33.
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Old 15th February 2024 | 19:48
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From: Toronto
How Ukraine’s crop exports rebounded from war’s devastation

The strategy behind Ukraine's attacks on Russian warships and marine facilities and radars.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/worl...ure-black-sea/

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