France 'concerned' about state of Britain's Armed Forces
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France 'concerned' about state of Britain's Armed Forces
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15th Feb 2023, 18:46
My comment is that it's pretty pointless linking to a pay to view article that most people can't read.
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- Turn off Javascript in your web browser (the pay wall relies on your browser running Javascript to prevent you from reading it without a login). That should be somewhere in preferences/settings for your particular browser.
- Use an archive site. such as archive.ph. I have done it for you for this article: https://archive.ph/CnoBB
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Agree, when an article is paywalled a synopsis would be useful, although if it's geoblocked it may not have been apparent to the OP that others couldn't see it.
For those who can't see the original this link worked for me: https://dnyuz.com/2023/02/14/france-...-armed-forces/
FWIW my very quick skim-read take is that the UK have been giving kit to Ukraine, France is concerned that they (the UK) have depleted their armed forces stock as a result, but they've not increased the budget to bolster supplies. Given mutual military support expectations between France and UK, France is of the view the UK is now not able to pull their weight should it be needed...
FP.
For those who can't see the original this link worked for me: https://dnyuz.com/2023/02/14/france-...-armed-forces/
FWIW my very quick skim-read take is that the UK have been giving kit to Ukraine, France is concerned that they (the UK) have depleted their armed forces stock as a result, but they've not increased the budget to bolster supplies. Given mutual military support expectations between France and UK, France is of the view the UK is now not able to pull their weight should it be needed...
FP.
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There are a couple of simple ways around this:
- Turn off Javascript in your web browser (the pay wall relies on your browser running Javascript to prevent you from reading it without a login). That should be somewhere in preferences/settings for your particular browser.
- Use an archive site. such as archive.ph. I have done it for you for this article: https://archive.ph/CnoBB
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Regardless, it is a common courtesy to other PPRuNers to Cut’n’Paste a quote of what you are asking them to comment upon 👍
Rule 9
Rule 9
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https://archive.is/CnoBB
Its here, I noticed they never mentioned the state of the german armed forces which I believe they are in same if not worse state than the UK
Its here, I noticed they never mentioned the state of the german armed forces which I believe they are in same if not worse state than the UK
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France 'concerned' about state of Britain's Armed Forces
Sources claim Nato is worried about UK capability amid wrangles over funding and depleted reserves from donations to UkraineBy Danielle Sheridan, Defence Editor ; Henry Samuel and Ben Riley-Smith, Political Editor 14 February 2023 • 9:28pm
Britain has agreed to send 14 Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine French officials have raised concerns over the state of the British Armed Forces.The Telegraph understands that Paris officials claimed that budget cuts to the UK's military were causing alarm among Nato members, as defence ministers from the pact gathered in Brussels.
It comes amid a row over defence spending in the upcoming budget, with Ben Wallace, the Defence Secretary, said to have asked the Chancellor for £10 billion for his department.
Calls for more money have been bolstered by the war in Ukraine, and by growing warnings about the threat from China in the wake of suspected spy balloons being shot down over the US.
On Tuesday a leading French MP told the Telegraph that there were concerns in his country that Britain had given weapons to Ukraine from its own supplies, leaving its forces depleted.
Emmanuel Macron announced last month that he would boost military spending by more than a third by 2030.
British government sources insisted that the French had not raised any such concerns with them.
It comes as Mr Wallace has been tipped to take over as head of Nato when Jens Stoltenberg, the current Secretary-General, steps down in October. On Tuesday, sources speculated that the French might rather the role went to an EU figure, and may be briefing to undermine Mr Wallace's chances.
Ben Wallace is fighting for more funding for his department Credit: No10 Downing Street Thomas Gassilloud, president of the French parliamentary defence committee and an MP in Mr Macron's Renaissance group, told the Telegraph the French had a vested interest in the strength of the British military due to a “strategic solidarity” between the two nations.
“We want the British to have a strong army,” Mr Gassilloud said. “When you have this type of debate it clearly is a source of concern. I have well understood that there is a political context to this regarding the defence budget and if this debate comes now it’s because everyone wants to weigh in on this debate.”
He also sounded a note of caution over how the UK has given kit to Ukraine.
Mr Gassilloud said: “One of our criteria for giving away equipment is the condition of not weakening the French military. For example, last week we pledged more Caesar howitzers but these came directly from industry to the Ukrainians and were not taken from army stock.
"We take constant care that our supplies to Ukraine don't deplete our national defence capabilities. I hope that the UK has the same concerns."
The UK has been generous in its donations to Kyiv, which have included NLAW and Brimstone anti-tank missiles, Sea King helicopters, artillery shells, and most recently an order of 14 Challenger 2 tanks.
General Sir Patrick Sanders, the head of the Army, recently warned that it would be "temporarily weaker" as a result.
Meanwhile, Mr Stoltenberg on Monday warned that Ukraine was getting through ammunition faster than Nato member states could produce it.
Tobias Ellwood, chairman of the Defence Select Committee, warned that the suggestion from the French could play into Vladimir Putin’s hands.
“This Nato ministerial is a vital opportunity to show unity, commitment and resolve to upgrade our collective defence posture as Russia attempts to redraw the map of Eastern Europe,” he said.
“It is true Britain’s Army requires an urgent upgrade but this must be addressed in the Integrated Review refresh. Any public bickering between Nato allies only plays to Putin’s advantage.”
The Ministry of Defence and the Treasury are locked in negotiations about how large an increase there should be in military spending.
The Telegraph revealed in December that the MoD will get at least a billion-pound boost to stop real term cuts in its budget.
However, there is now a wider debate about how high the increase should go, with decisions to be announced in the Budget on March 15.
The MoD is reportedly pushing for a rise of around £10 billion. Meanwhile, Treasury officials have accused the MoD of past overspends.
A backdrop of sustained pressure to provide weaponry and machinery to Ukraine, and the geopolitical challenges from Russia and China, has shaped the discussions.
'Lack of money'
Senior defence sources told The Telegraph on Tuesday that there was “lack of money” for the Ministry of Defence and that this would be reflected in the budget and the updated Integrated Review.Under the 2021 Integrated Review there were “radical cuts” of troops by 10,000.
Mr Macron had pledged that France's military budget for 2024-2030 will stand at €413 billion (£364 billion), up from €295 billion in 2019-2025.
Speaking at the Mont-de-Marsan air base in southwestern France on Jan 20 he said: "As war is changing, France has and will have armies ready for the perils of the century.We need to be one war ahead."
A Government spokesman said: “This story is based on unsubstantiated rumours.
“We are ensuring our Armed Forces have the equipment and capability they need - including through the biggest increase to defence spending since the Cold War, and a fully-funded £242 billion 10-year equipment plan.
“Our Armed Forces remain among the best in the world and are one of the leading contributors to Nato. Next year we will take on the leadership of Nato’s Very High Readiness Joint Task Force – we have deployed over 8,000 troops last year alone.”
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Will be the same France that has to borrow our C17 to deliver troops and equipment to Africa or the same France that borrowed a couple of Chinooks to pad out their Bastille Day parade? 
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I don't think this is "the French" per se.
It's more like the sustained briefing operation in advance of the ISR refresh that has been ongoing for some weeks now in both the Times and the Telegraph.
SoS response still covers it best.
It's more like the sustained briefing operation in advance of the ISR refresh that has been ongoing for some weeks now in both the Times and the Telegraph.
SoS response still covers it best.
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You make the mistake of thinking that statements from Macron, his ministers or MP's regarding matters outside France are for international consumption, when they are always for domestic consumption. Added to which, the pound shop Napoleon wants to run the EU's military affairs, and he has tanks to sell, whilst also justifying 400Bn in increased defence spend.
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Day after day peopel grumble here about the state of UK armed forces and with quite genuine concern. I think our forces do the very very best they can but they are hamstrung with equipment which is , again as repeated regualrly here that is of dubious value or outdated.
When someone outside the UK and we have seen expressions of of concern from France Germany and USA recently , its all swept away in the usual xenophobic tidal wave of abuse to the French and Germans and sarcastic comments about the Americans. Clearly France and Germany are less than happy about UKs potential role as NATO response force. And, why not, after Brexit and the last few years who in their right mind would trust the UK government . Or UK politicians like Johnson who in his own disgusting self agrandising way has pushed himself into the Ukraine situation wihtout any formal backign or authority. The other side of the Boris coin his total incompetence s -give Ukraine all our fighter jets for example. Britain leads the way on tanks when it doesnt , that's America .Wouldnt it be better to allocate the tanks we are sending to Ukraine to NATO so Ukraine could have an almost uniform force of Leopards.
I think UK armed forces are, like Nurses and Teachers, taken for granted and badly treated but somehow still manage to be 'world beating'
When someone outside the UK and we have seen expressions of of concern from France Germany and USA recently , its all swept away in the usual xenophobic tidal wave of abuse to the French and Germans and sarcastic comments about the Americans. Clearly France and Germany are less than happy about UKs potential role as NATO response force. And, why not, after Brexit and the last few years who in their right mind would trust the UK government . Or UK politicians like Johnson who in his own disgusting self agrandising way has pushed himself into the Ukraine situation wihtout any formal backign or authority. The other side of the Boris coin his total incompetence s -give Ukraine all our fighter jets for example. Britain leads the way on tanks when it doesnt , that's America .Wouldnt it be better to allocate the tanks we are sending to Ukraine to NATO so Ukraine could have an almost uniform force of Leopards.
I think UK armed forces are, like Nurses and Teachers, taken for granted and badly treated but somehow still manage to be 'world beating'
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