40 YEARS AGO TODAY - BLACK BUCK SEAD
Excellent and very informative post.
My two cents.
Argentine Air Force received a "tip" about a Vulcan with SEAD missiles on late May. The source identified the missile as a MARTEL ARM.
On 28 May, other (or the same?) source (most probably, the Russians) informed a MARTEL armed Vulcan departed from ASI, bound south. The source was right, but Black Buck 4 was cancelled five hours later.
From then, the Argentine forces in the islands and mainland were aware that a big echo incoming or loitering at long range could be an ARM armed Vulcan, so several measures were ordered (the first, shut down the radars...). Argentina also tried to buy a French made jam gear (French embargo?).
The interception (intersección, but surely is a typo for interceptación) is for Op PAMPERO, a plan to catch inbound Vulcan (or other big planes...) with Mirage / Dagger fighter jets.
Best!
Mariano
My two cents.
Argentine Air Force received a "tip" about a Vulcan with SEAD missiles on late May. The source identified the missile as a MARTEL ARM.
On 28 May, other (or the same?) source (most probably, the Russians) informed a MARTEL armed Vulcan departed from ASI, bound south. The source was right, but Black Buck 4 was cancelled five hours later.
From then, the Argentine forces in the islands and mainland were aware that a big echo incoming or loitering at long range could be an ARM armed Vulcan, so several measures were ordered (the first, shut down the radars...). Argentina also tried to buy a French made jam gear (French embargo?).
The interception (intersección, but surely is a typo for interceptación) is for Op PAMPERO, a plan to catch inbound Vulcan (or other big planes...) with Mirage / Dagger fighter jets.
Best!
Mariano
Thread Starter
You are not alone. The raids received very little publicity with the RAF initially denying they ever took place. Black Buck 1 was the mission that the RAF hierarchy championed. Even Rowland White’s Vulcan 607 made no reference to these SEAD/DEAD missions.
I have a comment on the Vulcan div to Rio and a question. I was with 38 Gp EU at the time as a Hercules ALM examiner and one of our TOR's was to provide role advice to group staffs as and when required. One day a file landed on my desk. It was an account of a Vulcan div to Rio and the attempts to jettison the secret stuff. It had been sent to me for comment as the Hercules airdrop 'guru' ! I was astonished as I knew nothing about the Vulcan and even a cursory reading revealed what a great job the crew had done in exceptional circumstances. I took it in to my boss who read it and told me to leave it with him. About an hour later I was told to forget that I had ever seen the file ! (Shades of my Easter Island imprest) I never did find out why we were asked to comment nor why any comment other than 'very well done' was needed.
The question is this. According to my log book we took XV 294 from Dakar to Rio on July 29, 82 then back to Dakar on July31, 82. I have a vague notion that it was something to do with a Vulcan but as this distance in time my memory is not what it used to be. Can anyone shed any light on this ?
The question is this. According to my log book we took XV 294 from Dakar to Rio on July 29, 82 then back to Dakar on July31, 82. I have a vague notion that it was something to do with a Vulcan but as this distance in time my memory is not what it used to be. Can anyone shed any light on this ?
Thread Starter
Could it be that your Herc was the one tasked to collect the remaining Shrike missile after the conflict had ended. Surely you would have known that though as the ALM and manifest checker? Or was it done under cover with much secrecy so as not to upset the Americans who had supplied the missiles?
As far as I know, the Shrike ARM was returned on 5 July 1982. A formal ceremony took place on Rio airport and, later, the missile was loaded on a C-130 (CO Wing Cdr Brian Warsap). The missile was offloaded at ASI, and then the C-130 continued to the UK.
Best!
Mariano
Best!
Mariano
Excellent and very informative post.
My two cents.
Argentine Air Force received a "tip" about a Vulcan with SEAD missiles on late May. The source identified the missile as a MARTEL ARM.
On 28 May, other (or the same?) source (most probably, the Russians) informed a MARTEL armed Vulcan departed from ASI, bound south. The source was right, but Black Buck 4 was cancelled five hours later.
From then, the Argentine forces in the islands and mainland were aware that a big echo incoming or loitering at long range could be an ARM armed Vulcan, so several measures were ordered (the first, shut down the radars...). Argentina also tried to buy a French made jam gear (French embargo?).
The interception (intersección, but surely is a typo for interceptación) is for Op PAMPERO, a plan to catch inbound Vulcan (or other big planes...) with Mirage / Dagger fighter jets.
Best!
Mariano
My two cents.
Argentine Air Force received a "tip" about a Vulcan with SEAD missiles on late May. The source identified the missile as a MARTEL ARM.
On 28 May, other (or the same?) source (most probably, the Russians) informed a MARTEL armed Vulcan departed from ASI, bound south. The source was right, but Black Buck 4 was cancelled five hours later.
From then, the Argentine forces in the islands and mainland were aware that a big echo incoming or loitering at long range could be an ARM armed Vulcan, so several measures were ordered (the first, shut down the radars...). Argentina also tried to buy a French made jam gear (French embargo?).
The interception (intersección, but surely is a typo for interceptación) is for Op PAMPERO, a plan to catch inbound Vulcan (or other big planes...) with Mirage / Dagger fighter jets.
Best!
Mariano
I am curious as to whether Argentinian air defences; other than sites on the islands; either detected or gained tracking on any of the Ascension based aircraft? Making some basic assumptions about Argentine radar coverage and superimposing what is available regarding some of the operations, it would seem that there were possible detection opportunities. Do you know of any reliable data that these flights were detected at the time?
YS
Hi YS,
As far as I know, the Argentine land radars did NOT detect any confirmed hostile echo from the sea (the radars detected some suspicious flights near the ARG border, inside Chile)
The only exception is an Argentine DD detecting the incoming Sea King ZA290 (Op MIKADO).
Best!
Mariano
As far as I know, the Argentine land radars did NOT detect any confirmed hostile echo from the sea (the radars detected some suspicious flights near the ARG border, inside Chile)
The only exception is an Argentine DD detecting the incoming Sea King ZA290 (Op MIKADO).
Best!
Mariano
Darvan,
I did know my job but what my ageing brain cannot at this distance in time tell me why we went there and why we were stayed in Rio for so long. Apart from the basic details my log book is mute on the subject as on so many others.
I did know my job but what my ageing brain cannot at this distance in time tell me why we went there and why we were stayed in Rio for so long. Apart from the basic details my log book is mute on the subject as on so many others.
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AA62,
Your trip to Rio (slip crew?) was to deliver a team of mr fixits for a diverted Herc that had shed a jet pipe that had bounced all over the place. Engine cx plus more. Hence your stay.
I was the useful idiot with his yellow tool box and haynes manual from the Asi det.
Your trip to Rio (slip crew?) was to deliver a team of mr fixits for a diverted Herc that had shed a jet pipe that had bounced all over the place. Engine cx plus more. Hence your stay.
I was the useful idiot with his yellow tool box and haynes manual from the Asi det.
neveraneng,
thank you for your recollection. It does indeed now trigger my few remaining memory cells ! If I recall also the WX was not very pleasant so much time was spent sheltering in bars !
thank you for your recollection. It does indeed now trigger my few remaining memory cells ! If I recall also the WX was not very pleasant so much time was spent sheltering in bars !
