OpSec issues from Ukraine War
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So away around that would be to put out spoof signals from UK phones in empty Ukrainian fields?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-numbers.html
The problem with the forces these days is they are so small that seeing them in the air etc tends to be a rarity so they get reported, where in the past they were all over the shop so it was just usual background normality and wouldn't get reported.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-numbers.html
The problem with the forces these days is they are so small that seeing them in the air etc tends to be a rarity so they get reported, where in the past they were all over the shop so it was just usual background normality and wouldn't get reported.
Obviously I was slack in making my point clearly enough.
There is a a very real difference between reporting what HAS happened, what IS happening, and what WILL happen.
Read the three "headlines" and tell me which ones are news, and which ones are giving away useful information.
1. Yesterday, members of " Para attacked Goose Green.
2. Right now, members of 2 Para are attacking Goose Green.
3. Tomorrow 2 Para will attack Goose Green.
This is the kind of prevalent low-low information bandied around unchallenged on spotter's pages. The responsible groups stamp it out.
There is a a very real difference between reporting what HAS happened, what IS happening, and what WILL happen.
Read the three "headlines" and tell me which ones are news, and which ones are giving away useful information.
1. Yesterday, members of " Para attacked Goose Green.
2. Right now, members of 2 Para are attacking Goose Green.
3. Tomorrow 2 Para will attack Goose Green.
This is the kind of prevalent low-low information bandied around unchallenged on spotter's pages. The responsible groups stamp it out.
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Updated picture of Kherson airport?
Last edited by NutLoose; 21st Mar 2022 at 13:21.
So, you really think that the fact that a Typhoon took off from RAF Coningsby is going to be of real interest to the Russians in Ukraine TWO THOUSAND MILES AWAY? Do get real. You typify the ridiculous approach and attitude to security and secrecy in Government that rightly gets such a bad name. And, if the Russians really wanted to know that, they have numerous ways and means of finding out, not excluding sending one of their embassy staff to stand at the end of the runway.
It is not "just that" which is of concern and you know it. It is "That" x 100 other jigsaw pieces + all the other little add-ons that get posted which build a one-stop shop for useful intel.
If a Station IntO says it is problematic, and you make your snide comments: Guess who has any credibility.
To Geriaviator I doubt it will be stopped but it can be reduced. If you speak to the Admins of the various sites they "get it" and posting is tempered accordingly. Problem is, we are up against those too blinkered to see the risk, no matter how small it may be..
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I dont know how accurate this is.
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You know what I think of your opinion.
It is not "just that" which is of concern and you know it. It is "That" x 100 other jigsaw pieces + all the other little add-ons that get posted which build a one-stop shop for useful intel.
If a Station IntO says it is problematic, and you make your snide comments: Guess who has any credibility.
To Geriaviator I doubt it will be stopped but it can be reduced. If you speak to the Admins of the various sites they "get it" and posting is tempered accordingly. Problem is, we are up against those too blinkered to see the risk, no matter how small it may be..
It is not "just that" which is of concern and you know it. It is "That" x 100 other jigsaw pieces + all the other little add-ons that get posted which build a one-stop shop for useful intel.
If a Station IntO says it is problematic, and you make your snide comments: Guess who has any credibility.
To Geriaviator I doubt it will be stopped but it can be reduced. If you speak to the Admins of the various sites they "get it" and posting is tempered accordingly. Problem is, we are up against those too blinkered to see the risk, no matter how small it may be..
Often it is the trivial things that matter, If you read the latest copy of Flypast or Aeroplane which is a 40th anniversary copy of the Falklands war, in the Harrier section, one Harrier deployed I think it said was the lone Sea Eagle trial Harrier, unfortunately it was shot down and the pilot killed, but the Argentinians upon investigating the wreckage realised that is was Sea Eagle capable and that lead them to believe the whole Harrier fleet was, I would imagine that information then contributed to their surface warfare tactics.
The fact they are being posted Pr00ne means that the Russians can deduce what isn't in the area of operations, which can give them an idea of what is.
Often it is the trivial things that matter, If you read the latest copy of Flypast or Aeroplane which is a 40th anniversary copy of the Falklands war, in the Harrier section, one Harrier deployed I think it said was the lone Sea Eagle trial Harrier, unfortunately it was shot down and the pilot killed, but the Argentinians upon investigating the wreckage realised that is was Sea Eagle capable and that lead them to believe the whole Harrier fleet was, I would imagine that information then contributed to their surface warfare tactics.
Often it is the trivial things that matter, If you read the latest copy of Flypast or Aeroplane which is a 40th anniversary copy of the Falklands war, in the Harrier section, one Harrier deployed I think it said was the lone Sea Eagle trial Harrier, unfortunately it was shot down and the pilot killed, but the Argentinians upon investigating the wreckage realised that is was Sea Eagle capable and that lead them to believe the whole Harrier fleet was, I would imagine that information then contributed to their surface warfare tactics.
Gosh, that Falklands report is an illuminating read.
Separate briefings - one for editors, another for firstline major media, another for second line.
Different MOD people, giving different information to each.
Several occasions where UXBs were openly discussed in front of journalists, and even mentioned in MOD releases, prior to the publication of the details of fusing etc.
Blimey...
Separate briefings - one for editors, another for firstline major media, another for second line.
Different MOD people, giving different information to each.
Several occasions where UXBs were openly discussed in front of journalists, and even mentioned in MOD releases, prior to the publication of the details of fusing etc.
Blimey...
Maybe an analogy would be our Neighbourhood Watch. which has caught a few bad guys over the past 16 years. As our local policeman told us, it's the report of a suspicious car or van, the tipoff about a dodgy cold caller, that sometimes places the last piece in the detective's jigsaw puzzle. Beside it gives us nosy old farts something to do ...
Maybe an analogy would be our Neighbourhood Watch. which has caught a few bad guys over the past 16 years. As our local policeman told us, it's the report of a suspicious car or van, the tipoff about a dodgy cold caller, that sometimes places the last piece in the detective's jigsaw puzzle. Beside it gives us nosy old farts something to do ...
Or where you have 3 couples posting on their FB pages.
One telling how good their skiing holiday was last week, one agreeing saying they are at the same resort and just packing to come home, and the third announcing they are really excited as they are going next week.
Couple 3 are then dumfounded as to why they were burgled whilst away. Some folk are just too stupid to help.
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S'WB - that reminds me of an old TV play...
A man had suffered a burglary. So, rather upset, he'd booked a Spanish holiday, then went to a local pub for a few drinks, annoucing to all and sundry that he was just off to Spain for a couple of weeks...
Back at his house, another burglar broke in. Whereupon there was an almighty clatter as the cage which had been installed trapped the burglar. The man who'd been burgled then appeared. "Please mate, I'm sorry, I won't do it again, please let me out" pleaded the burglar.
"Perhaps", said the man, "But everyone knows I'm away for the next 14 days"
A man had suffered a burglary. So, rather upset, he'd booked a Spanish holiday, then went to a local pub for a few drinks, annoucing to all and sundry that he was just off to Spain for a couple of weeks...
Back at his house, another burglar broke in. Whereupon there was an almighty clatter as the cage which had been installed trapped the burglar. The man who'd been burgled then appeared. "Please mate, I'm sorry, I won't do it again, please let me out" pleaded the burglar.
"Perhaps", said the man, "But everyone knows I'm away for the next 14 days"
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Some modern things make the criminals life easier, they were found to be using Google Earth to identify churches with lead roofs. I would imagine Russia could use it to select targets of interest as a back up to their own data..
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Similar perhaps to:
In March 1942, the Director of British Naval Intelligence, Admiral John Godfrey made a public appeal via the BBC Radio. Godfrey requested listeners to send in holiday photographs and postcards of Europe, particularly places of potential military interest. Over 80,000 people responded with holiday snaps forming a comprehensive library that by 1944 totaled ten million images. Relevant photographs garnered from the public for Operation Overlord were incorporated into military briefing materials, along with maps and zero-elevation aerial photographs, then issued to assault troops in preparation for the invasion of France in June 1944.
Sure it was 70 plus years ago now, but still relevant when you consider the larger picture being constructed from the many small insignificant pictures
Similar perhaps to:
In March 1942, the Director of British Naval Intelligence, Admiral John Godfrey made a public appeal via the BBC Radio. Godfrey requested listeners to send in holiday photographs and postcards of Europe, particularly places of potential military interest. Over 80,000 people responded with holiday snaps forming a comprehensive library that by 1944 totaled ten million images. Relevant photographs garnered from the public for Operation Overlord were incorporated into military briefing materials, along with maps and zero-elevation aerial photographs, then issued to assault troops in preparation for the invasion of France in June 1944.
Sure it was 70 plus years ago now, but still relevant when you consider the larger picture being constructed from the many small insignificant picturesShame they didn't have Google Earth back then. Could have saved a lot of postage!
When we talk of OPSEC now and fretting about what a spotter at the end of a runway is giving away, it should be remembered that the Rusks can probably see everything in real time.
However getting people on board with the idea is probably not a bad thing.
It would seem that the Ukrainians still have the use of their mobile and internet services.
This is most likely because the Rusks are having to use the same networks as their own comms systems are so poor they need to piggy back off the Ukrainian systems.
This could be the reasons the Rusks have lost 6 senior field officers - the volume of comms coming from the Divisional level has given the US a target indicator of where to look.
Likely position is confirmed and passed to the Ukrainians - Fire Mission complete, not just the dead Major General but also a great number of their staff.
Something we train hard to mitigate against but evidently not them.
Hubris is a killer.
However getting people on board with the idea is probably not a bad thing.
It would seem that the Ukrainians still have the use of their mobile and internet services.
This is most likely because the Rusks are having to use the same networks as their own comms systems are so poor they need to piggy back off the Ukrainian systems.
This could be the reasons the Rusks have lost 6 senior field officers - the volume of comms coming from the Divisional level has given the US a target indicator of where to look.
Likely position is confirmed and passed to the Ukrainians - Fire Mission complete, not just the dead Major General but also a great number of their staff.
Something we train hard to mitigate against but evidently not them.
Hubris is a killer.
Back in the 70's BA sent a nav team out to Russia to arrange B747 great circle overflight from the UK to the far east.
Eventually the question was posed of.. 'where will you land in the event of an enroute emergency'.
The russians were visibly shocked when the UK team unfurled a map showing the details of every russian airfield, military and civil, that met their requirements for a B74 classic. 'How did you get this' was their question.
Eventually the question was posed of.. 'where will you land in the event of an enroute emergency'.
The russians were visibly shocked when the UK team unfurled a map showing the details of every russian airfield, military and civil, that met their requirements for a B74 classic. 'How did you get this' was their question.
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When we talk of OPSEC now and fretting about what a spotter at the end of a runway is giving away, it should be remembered that the Rusks can probably see everything in real time.
However getting people on board with the idea is probably not a bad thing.
It would seem that the Ukrainians still have the use of their mobile and internet services.
This is most likely because the Rusks are having to use the same networks as their own comms systems are so poor they need to piggy back off the Ukrainian systems.
This could be the reasons the Rusks have lost 6 senior field officers - the volume of comms coming from the Divisional level has given the US a target indicator of where to look.
Likely position is confirmed and passed to the Ukrainians - Fire Mission complete, not just the dead Major General but also a great number of their staff.
Something we train hard to mitigate against but evidently not them.
Hubris is a killer.
However getting people on board with the idea is probably not a bad thing.
It would seem that the Ukrainians still have the use of their mobile and internet services.
This is most likely because the Rusks are having to use the same networks as their own comms systems are so poor they need to piggy back off the Ukrainian systems.
This could be the reasons the Rusks have lost 6 senior field officers - the volume of comms coming from the Divisional level has given the US a target indicator of where to look.
Likely position is confirmed and passed to the Ukrainians - Fire Mission complete, not just the dead Major General but also a great number of their staff.
Something we train hard to mitigate against but evidently not them.
Hubris is a killer.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/15/2...ations-ukraine
There have been some binary views on here. Those who understand, and those who don't. Probably, on average, 98% of information contained on here is harmless. Indeed, if the Uk MOD decide to broadcast information, it is possibly part of a planned infowar campaign and they want the world to know. We have passed the idea of an embassy staff or employee at the end of a runway being a risk and left that well behind. The use of spotter sites, FR24 and other sources will negate the need to post a member of staff at the runway and use them somewhere else more useful. The use and location of phones is a complete red herring and the subject of a completely different matter not suitable at all for discussion on here. The banning by the MOD of the use of Whats App, - but not not the phone activity- shows info was potentially being imparted that could be detrimental to the UK effort. Monitoring of Pprune, ARRSE, EGOAT and Navy net will be a soul destroying task for some lowly int analyst, but when tactics, weapon capabilities, tactical successes or failures by Ukraine or Russia, or what each side should do to mitigate against weapons and enemy tactics are discussed, no matter how out of date those opinions may or may not be, these may be highlighted and more than likely acted on. All that is need from posters on here is to carefully consider what is posted before it is posted. This site does NOT contain classified info, does not contain official tactic plans or operational plans, but throwaway comments or 'look how clever I am in forecasting what will happen' or 'what i would do is...'comments, from folk with an above average knowledge of military ops, tactics and doctrine, could possibly either confirm or deny the thought process of a Hostile intelligence Service. PPrune is NOT a primary Int source, nor will it ever be, All that is being suggested is that posters are careful of what they post. It will be monitored and it MAY provide useful information. The concerns aired are certainly not an overinflated sense of self value, but a request to think carefully before posting., As I alluded to before, almost 98% posts on here are perfectly fine references to open source material are sometimes useful and interesting. But once analysis, discussion, comments and opinions based on personal and professional knowledge is applied, that becomes a potential area of concern. Nobody on here will deliberately give away classified information, but the summation of information discussed on here may be useful in the big picture. Remember, the biggest threat to Opsec is the thought that no threat exists. Please, think before you post.
Well the MOD briefings on the Falklands were clearly driven by a need to to drive headlines in the papers and the security issues could go hang.
No 10 was putting enormous pressure on the guys on the ground to break out from San Carlos, at whatever the costs, and to attack the Argentineans - as the only place they could do that was Goose Green it became the target and people started taking and briefing about it. IIRC H Jones said he'd shoot someone when he got back to London.
No 10 was putting enormous pressure on the guys on the ground to break out from San Carlos, at whatever the costs, and to attack the Argentineans - as the only place they could do that was Goose Green it became the target and people started taking and briefing about it. IIRC H Jones said he'd shoot someone when he got back to London.
As has been posted multiple times, how is it possible that this information could be extracted from the tsunami of words sloshing around, when the language is going to be so generic ? There won't be key words like " Hill 247" but far more general terms such as "tactics" or "refuelling " in the analysis and comments that you mention.