OpSec issues from Ukraine War
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I wonder if the Russians have considered infiltrating spotter groups.
It would be, apparently, a much more efficient and effective means of finding out what the baddies are doing instead of the traditional intelligence gathering activities which are, no doubt, continuing as we speak.
It would be, apparently, a much more efficient and effective means of finding out what the baddies are doing instead of the traditional intelligence gathering activities which are, no doubt, continuing as we speak.
Krain
???
You mean those pesky spotter groups on the Ukrainian Air bases?
Or do you think they are so bored by this war in Ukraine that they are already dealing with other stuff in parallel to keep the boredom at bay?
I wonder if the Russians have considered infiltrating spotter groups.
It would be, apparently, a much more efficient and effective means of finding out what the baddies are doing instead of the traditional intelligence gathering activities which are, no doubt, continuing as we speak.
It would be, apparently, a much more efficient and effective means of finding out what the baddies are doing instead of the traditional intelligence gathering activities which are, no doubt, continuing as we speak.
You mean those pesky spotter groups on the Ukrainian Air bases?
Or do you think they are so bored by this war in Ukraine that they are already dealing with other stuff in parallel to keep the boredom at bay?
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I wonder if the Russians have considered infiltrating spotter groups.
It would be, apparently, a much more efficient and effective means of finding out what the baddies are doing instead of the traditional intelligence gathering activities which are, no doubt, continuing as we speak.
It would be, apparently, a much more efficient and effective means of finding out what the baddies are doing instead of the traditional intelligence gathering activities which are, no doubt, continuing as we speak.
Not long after Gulf War 2 I saw a report on RN refuelling ops just outside the Gulf at a classified position which was often changed for reasons of security.
Well, I checked a AIS ship spotting site and there was a UK tanker loitering in the area happily broadcasting its location to the world.
I contacted a Tanker Mooring Master friend who was ex-RN, He contacted a RN friend of some high rank and told him the tanker’s name , location, track were readily available on the internet and that someone had probably not turned off the guilty AIS box. The fellow was most surprised to learn of this and said some very bad words.
By the next morning it was off and probably disconnected with extreme prejudice. I would have liked to have seen a copy of that message from Admiralty to the Commander of the vessel concerned and seen his reaction. There were probably some new rules and procedures promulgated ASAP.
Well, I checked a AIS ship spotting site and there was a UK tanker loitering in the area happily broadcasting its location to the world.
I contacted a Tanker Mooring Master friend who was ex-RN, He contacted a RN friend of some high rank and told him the tanker’s name , location, track were readily available on the internet and that someone had probably not turned off the guilty AIS box. The fellow was most surprised to learn of this and said some very bad words.
By the next morning it was off and probably disconnected with extreme prejudice. I would have liked to have seen a copy of that message from Admiralty to the Commander of the vessel concerned and seen his reaction. There were probably some new rules and procedures promulgated ASAP.
Oh do get a grip for gawd sake!
OPSEC? BEADWINDOW? Security breaches?
If you seriously consider for one split second that some Russian intelligence types, poring over their numerous satellite images, long range IR, night vision and recce images, ELINT, HUMINT and numerous other info sources, will cast all that aside with the cry "hold on, ignore all that! Some ex Vulcan jockey on PPRUNE thinks that we might be wrong in some of what we are doing!" then you are SO deluded that it is embarrassing!
As for the rest, all that is posted here is a repost of stuff already posted elsewhere and often by the Ukranians or UK MoD themselves. You are massively overstating your importance or significance if you think that any of this is any kind of security breach.
я українецьya ukrayinetsʹ
OPSEC? BEADWINDOW? Security breaches?
If you seriously consider for one split second that some Russian intelligence types, poring over their numerous satellite images, long range IR, night vision and recce images, ELINT, HUMINT and numerous other info sources, will cast all that aside with the cry "hold on, ignore all that! Some ex Vulcan jockey on PPRUNE thinks that we might be wrong in some of what we are doing!" then you are SO deluded that it is embarrassing!
As for the rest, all that is posted here is a repost of stuff already posted elsewhere and often by the Ukranians or UK MoD themselves. You are massively overstating your importance or significance if you think that any of this is any kind of security breach.
я українецьya ukrayinetsʹ
Similarly, it's not uncommon to see RAF Typhoons on ADSB coming out of Cyprus, but for the transponder to be turned off as they turn north. And these large tanker aircraft aren't flying oblongs around Eastern Europe for nothing.
I think the general public, and indeed some of the 'enthusiast' community, have no idea about what may or may not be useful. Anyone who has served in the military is steeped in the idea that information is kept confidential and compartmentalised, not just 'no need to know' but 'no need to share'. The reason there was a need for the 'Careless Talk Costs Lifes' campaign is that most outside the Forces 'bubble' don't appreciate what OPSEC involves.
Given that the Russians don't seem to be able to get sandwiches to their troops, their commanders alive and any tactical progress, maybe a post on pprune about where a certain aircraft was probably isnt as important to the decision makers as we might think ?
Gosh, that Falklands report is an illuminating read.
Separate briefings - one for editors, another for firstline major media, another for second line.
Different MOD people, giving different information to each.
Several occasions where UXBs were openly discussed in front of journalists, and even mentioned in MOD releases, prior to the publication of the details of fusing etc.
Blimey...
Separate briefings - one for editors, another for firstline major media, another for second line.
Different MOD people, giving different information to each.
Several occasions where UXBs were openly discussed in front of journalists, and even mentioned in MOD releases, prior to the publication of the details of fusing etc.
Blimey...
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Wasn’t the Falklands I counted them all out and I counted them all back again the result of security issues and the BBC reporter being told not to release numbers of aircraft involved.
As far as the general discussion here’s a thought. I was about to click on the sky news (UK) YouTube channel when up popped a link to an item from Forces News. Clearly, they have no idea about OPSEC as there was a reporter broadcasting from inside a V*****r refuelling T******s flying over Rom***a. I do hope someone from pprune writes to them pointing out the error of their ways!
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On the other hand, if all of the squadrons personal phones go dark, one can draw intel from that too. Needs a chap to take all the phones down the local while the unit is on ops.
Obviously I was slack in making my point clearly enough.
There is a a very real difference between reporting what HAS happened, what IS happening, and what WILL happen.
Read the three "headlines" and tell me which ones are news, and which ones are giving away useful information.
1. Yesterday, members of " Para attacked Goose Green.
2. Right now, members of 2 Para are attacking Goose Green.
3. Tomorrow 2 Para will attack Goose Green.
This is the kind of prevalent low-low information bandied around unchallenged on spotter's pages. The responsible groups stamp it out.
There is a a very real difference between reporting what HAS happened, what IS happening, and what WILL happen.
Read the three "headlines" and tell me which ones are news, and which ones are giving away useful information.
1. Yesterday, members of " Para attacked Goose Green.
2. Right now, members of 2 Para are attacking Goose Green.
3. Tomorrow 2 Para will attack Goose Green.
This is the kind of prevalent low-low information bandied around unchallenged on spotter's pages. The responsible groups stamp it out.
Obviously I was slack in making my point clearly enough.
There is a a very real difference between reporting what HAS happened, what IS happening, and what WILL happen.
Read the three "headlines" and tell me which ones are news, and which ones are giving away useful information.
1. Yesterday, members of " Para attacked Goose Green.
2. Right now, members of 2 Para are attacking Goose Green.
3. Tomorrow 2 Para will attack Goose Green.
This is the kind of prevalent low-low information bandied around unchallenged on spotter's pages. The responsible groups stamp it out.
There is a a very real difference between reporting what HAS happened, what IS happening, and what WILL happen.
Read the three "headlines" and tell me which ones are news, and which ones are giving away useful information.
1. Yesterday, members of " Para attacked Goose Green.
2. Right now, members of 2 Para are attacking Goose Green.
3. Tomorrow 2 Para will attack Goose Green.
This is the kind of prevalent low-low information bandied around unchallenged on spotter's pages. The responsible groups stamp it out.
Spotters will find out what's going on, they're like dickers. I've been in CAs on SPTA where one spotter has been seen in the trees, and by the time we've done a few more CAs in the general area there will be 4 or 5 taking pictures. WhatsApp/Facebook/FR24 allows instant broadcast of info, the comments that go with it are pure assumption. I've seen my own flights being tracked on groups with people saying "they're doing this or that" when we were doing nothing of the sort. It's great for virtual people watching with a brew.
Wait a minute. If the publication of operational patterns such as take off times is such an egregious sin, have you not just breached OPSEC rules by bringing this spotter group to the attention of the Russians?!
Report it to the Station Execs that they're setting patterns. STARS has probably been compromised by now anyway.
Spotters will find out what's going on, they're like dickers. I've been in CAs on SPTA where one spotter has been seen in the trees, and by the time we've done a few more CAs in the general area there will be 4 or 5 taking pictures. WhatsApp/Facebook/FR24 allows instant broadcast of info, the comments that go with it are pure assumption. I've seen my own flights being tracked on groups with people saying "they're doing this or that" when we were doing nothing of the sort. It's great for virtual people watching with a brew.
Spotters will find out what's going on, they're like dickers. I've been in CAs on SPTA where one spotter has been seen in the trees, and by the time we've done a few more CAs in the general area there will be 4 or 5 taking pictures. WhatsApp/Facebook/FR24 allows instant broadcast of info, the comments that go with it are pure assumption. I've seen my own flights being tracked on groups with people saying "they're doing this or that" when we were doing nothing of the sort. It's great for virtual people watching with a brew.
I think this constant flow of low-level info must be useful to someone though how you stop it I do not know. The MoD thinks so by allegedly banning Whatsapp as quoted here
I know it's the Daily Wail but this story seems authentic
I know it's the Daily Wail but this story seems authentic