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Russia - Military Strength vs Expenditure. How do they do it?

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Russia - Military Strength vs Expenditure. How do they do it?

Old 6th Mar 2022, 20:48
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Did anyone hear of Vitek? Or did he/she got arrested while demonstrating against the war?
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Old 6th Mar 2022, 22:10
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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It appears to me that the prize Putin is seeking in the south is Mariupol. City with heavy industry and shipyard/ship repair infrastructure.
If that is taken, the subsequent completion of a land bridge, if you will, from Mother Russia to Crimea might be accomplished which would probably achieve some of Putin's goals.
Taking Kiev and installing a more pliant government there would be a "great if we can manage it" goal, but may not be a "have to have" goal.
Or maybe he's decided "all or nothing" and I miss my guess.

In either case, if you can't keep the wheels and tracks rolling, you can't achieve your objectives.
What was it Rommel said about war: "Amateurs talk about strategy and tactics, professionals talk about logistics" (Or words to that effect)
Maintenance and upkeep, and spare parts, fit into logistics.
“The battle is fought and decided by the quartermasters, long before the shooting begins.”
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Old 7th Mar 2022, 03:47
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
It appears to me that the prize Putin is seeking in the south is Mariupol. City with heavy industry and shipyard/ship repair infrastructure.
If that is taken, the subsequent completion of a land bridge, if you will, from Mother Russia to Crimea might be accomplished which would probably achieve some of Putin's goals.
Taking Kiev and installing a more pliant government there would be a "great if we can manage it" goal, but may not be a "have to have" goal.
Or maybe he's decided "all or nothing" and I miss my guess.

In either case, if you can't keep the wheels and tracks rolling, you can't achieve your objectives.
What was it Rommel said about war: "Amateurs talk about strategy and tactics, professionals talk about logistics" (Or words to that effect)
Maintenance and upkeep, and spare parts, fit into logistics.
“The battle is fought and decided by the quartermasters, long before the shooting begins.”
Don't know about the logistics, but think that Russia's army relies heavily on rail transport, which is difficult if the switch yards are under hostile control
What is puzzling though is that the assault was widely predicted, so everyone knew it was imminent, except apparently the Russian troops and their logistics units.
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Old 7th Mar 2022, 09:01
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it seems that most people in Russia were fed the same lines as people in the West - they really don't understand why Putin has launched an unprovoked attack on people they know and quite like.
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Old 7th Mar 2022, 09:27
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The way I understand the invasion is that Putin didn't tell anyone, either political or military, what his aim was. The military planning was based on a short conflict, either to the front-lines of the new "republics" or to the boundary of the Donbass. That would have been feasible in 48-72 hours, and food, fuel, ammunition etc sufficient for that was on the border. That seems to be one reason everything has been slowed. Add to those problems the situation where a lot of the younger (conscripted?) troops though they were on exercise, not at war, and you are ripe for desertion, mutiny, internal sabotage.
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Old 7th Mar 2022, 09:41
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With regard to the thread title, I think we have now have a definitive answer: "They don't".

Putin has fallen for the classic dictator's mistake of investing in shiny, crowd-pleasing assets, not the boring stuff like truck tyres, edible rations for the troops etc etc.
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Old 7th Mar 2022, 10:31
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IIRC a substantial number of conscripts are coming to the end of their stint - not a great recipe for getting people to risk their lives ............
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Old 7th Mar 2022, 12:25
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There is an interesting viewpoint that Russian military procurement was channeled through the hands of 'friends' each of whom took an 'introductory' commission. The end product being well publicised and glitzy, but underfunded and of poor quality.
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Old 7th Mar 2022, 14:11
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Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
With regard to the thread title, I think we have now have a definitive answer: "They don't".

Putin has fallen for the classic dictator's mistake of investing in shiny, crowd-pleasing assets, not the boring stuff like truck tyres, edible rations for the troops etc etc.

Looks like they made a mistake of relying on cheap tires. Too perfect........

"A massive column of Russian armour believed to be intended for an assault on Kyiv remains inexplicably stopped outside the city. The best guess of military analysts is that poorly maintained Russian trucks have been breaking down en masse, all while cheaply made Chinese tires suffer repeated blowouts."

Maybe we should start airlifting nails to them for the roadways.
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Old 7th Mar 2022, 14:27
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by punkalouver View Post

Maybe we should start airlifting nails to them for the roadways.
Use ebay and they deliver

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334349096...Cclp%3A2047675
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Old 7th Mar 2022, 18:28
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During the Italian campaign in WW2 a tank officer spoke to some surrendered artillery officers from a unit that had been devastating Allied armour with their unsurpassed 88mm guns. One German officer remarked "we ran out of ammunition before you ran out of tanks". However crappy the Russian hardware, they have a lot of it. Likewise cannon-fodder.
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Old 7th Mar 2022, 18:47
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Originally Posted by skridlov View Post
During the Italian campaign in WW2 a tank officer spoke to some surrendered artillery officers from a unit that had been devastating Allied armour with their unsurpassed 88mm guns. One German officer remarked "we ran out of ammunition before you ran out of tanks". However crappy the Russian hardware, they have a lot of it. Likewise cannon-fodder.
They may have a lot of it, but they don't seem to have anywhere near enough fuel bowsers to keep it moving.

If the Germans hadn't run out of 88mm ammunition???

As a former Wing Mong (TSW) it's good to see that the importance of Logistics is finally being recognised by the wider media.
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Old 7th Mar 2022, 19:16
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This thread has fulfilled its purpose: now we all know the russians aren't miracle workers. Pay nuts etc, applies to HW too.
There was speculation regarding if Putin declares Martial law, he could muster 2 million men. I'd reckon the issues would just multiply, that army would be soviet legacy by equipment AND training. Now we've seen the young conscripts and contract soldiers. Then, at worst, we'd see people who received their training in the early 90's using equipment dug out from the darkest warehouses forgotten long ago. Imagine those being fed to NATO as the great panty poisoner goes all in...
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 12:08
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Putin might have benefited from thinking about these quotes from Marshal Zhukov, after making the relevant substitutions.

It is a fact that under equal conditions, large-scale battles and whole wars are wonlost by troops which have a strong little will for victory, no clear goals before them, highlow moral standards, and little devotion to the banner under which they go into battle.

'NazisPutin did not expect Soviet Ukrainian resistance to be so strong. The deeper they moved into this country'sUkrainian territory, the more fierce it became. When HitlerPutin's armies approached Moscow Kyiv, every man and woman here thought it imperative to resist the enemy. And that resistance grew by the day. The enemyarmy was sustaining heavy losses, one after another. In fact, Hitler Putin's best troops perished here. NazisHe believed the Red Ukrainian Army was not capable of defending MoscowKyiv, but their schemes failed.'


Unfortunately, I think he may be believing in this one:
'The longer the battle lasts the more force we'll have to use!'

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Old 10th Mar 2022, 19:35
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Hey, with all this new defense spending coming up, I think I know where we should get our fighters from. Why pay ridiculous amounts on F-35's when you can get these jam-proof aircraft which are still flying:

"while Kyiv has modernized its armed forces, its Soviet-era planes have not been upgraded, and use the same communications systems as the Russian army -- meaning Moscow cannot cripple the Ukrainians without hurting their own effort."
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