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Russian Sub hit Towed Array 2020

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Russian Sub hit Towed Array 2020

Old 8th Jan 2022, 13:21
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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The technology is similar to the seismic boats used in oil exploration - they often stream cables 2-3 km long - and maybe 6-8 at a time

In the second pic the streamers are the white feathered marks on the left - the gun arrays are nearer the ship

and they are a real sod to keep straight , and you don't turn any sharp corners either.............




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Old 8th Jan 2022, 13:33
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Oh! Look....

Jack
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 15:12
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It does sort of puzzle me that [despite the unit cost] there wasn't a full spare or enough bits 'n' tiffs on board to diagnose & repair any damage rather than (as was reported) have to head for the coast once more for a complete new one.
Doesn't really seem to me to demonstrate resilience for extended operation in austere locations......
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 15:27
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Originally Posted by Donkey497 View Post
It does sort of puzzle me that [despite the unit cost] there wasn't a full spare or enough bits 'n' tiffs on board to diagnose & repair any damage rather than (as was reported) have to head for the coast once more for a complete new one.
Doesn't really seem to me to demonstrate resilience for extended operation in austere locations......
The unit cost is the whole system, including winches and inboard processors. The array itself is only a smallish part of the cost.

There simply isn't room to carry a spare - let alone move it around to the winch compartment to fit it.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 18:05
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There simply isn't room to carry a spare - let alone move it around to the winch compartment to fit it.
Seems a fairly major oversight to me if the only option is to scuttle off back to base for a new one whilst there's even a remote chance of having to operate this kit at risk of damage somewhere in the southern reaches of the Atlantic, northern/western parts of the Pacific or areas of the Indian Ocean. Then again, my views are coloured by having to have a minimum of four back up plans for things going wrong in all field operations despite this plug & play/nothing ever breaks down world in which we live.....

Should anyone be interested in BAE, General Dynamics or the like, I have a cunning idea for a new Naval "toy" for submarines to defeat towed array sonar.


It feels good to be back on PPRuNe after 16 months.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 18:25
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Defeating a trailing submarine is easy.
Spray the wake with a biodegradable oil dyed green.
Submarine pops up attack scope for a quick shufti. Oil coats scope with oil so all the skipper sees is green.
Skipper smacks ship control officer round the back of the head and demands periscope depth
Ship control officer knows better than to argue and brings the boat up a bit more.
Skipper has another peek, still green, smack round head, repeat.
Eventually the submarine gets high enough for the trailed ship to shoot it down with a/a fire or missile.

I leave the details to you, my cut is 50%.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 19:05
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Donkey497 View Post
Seems a fairly major oversight to me if the only option is to scuttle off back to base for a new one whilst there's even a remote chance of having to operate this kit at risk of damage somewhere in the southern reaches of the Atlantic, northern/western parts of the Pacific or areas of the Indian Ocean. Then again, my views are coloured by having to have a minimum of four back up plans for things going wrong in all field operations despite this plug & play/nothing ever breaks down world in which we live.....

Should anyone be interested in BAE, General Dynamics or the like, I have a cunning idea for a new Naval "toy" for submarines to defeat towed array sonar.


It feels good to be back on PPRuNe after 16 months.
Does an aircraft carry a spare radar, engine or wing? Or an infanteer a spare leg?

You can fly a spare reel out to theatre and fit there if necessary. What you can't do is manhandle a couple of tonnes / several cubic metres of cable and array inside a ship.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 19:34
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Ninthace
Eventually the submarine gets high enough for the trailed ship to shoot it down with a/a fire or missile.
That was the purpose of the guns in the nose of the Shackleton
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 20:54
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Originally Posted by oxenos View Post
Ninthace
That was the purpose of the guns in the nose of the Shackleton
Do you know, I always wondered. I mean what else could it catch up to?
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 08:42
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Do you know, I always wondered. I mean what else could it catch up to?
The Vipers were added to enable us to keep up with the faster submarines.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 08:46
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"There simply isn't room to carry a spare - let alone move it around to the winch compartment to fit it."

These aren't just lengths of cable - the hydrophones are pretty delicate electronic instruments in themselves and the wiring......... isn't very robust. You have to be very careful how you handle it - the vessels were never designed to carry a spare reel which would probably take up a space the size of a helicopter hanger.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 11:05
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Ssshhh! Their real use is the undersea chemtrail dispenser!
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 12:00
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I bet deploying a towed array is almost as much fun as unravelling Christmas tree lights.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 12:49
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For clarity [& speaking as someone used to the type of kit used for oil & gas surveys shown in the ramform pic]- I never meant the dumb [cable, towing wire etc.] part of the array but the active & semi-active parts like the connectors, sensor heads & other "interesting bits" that you could use to effect a field repair.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 12:55
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I don't think I would have wanted to be a submariner but I admire their guts! There are some interesting insights here:-

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Old 9th Jan 2022, 13:40
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TBH, I always found that fighter pilots and submariners got on very well. I guess it was something to do with the fact that both operate in peacetime with much the same hazards as they would have in wartime. Get it wrong and there are no second chances.

Mog
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 14:01
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Originally Posted by Donkey497 View Post
For clarity [& speaking as someone used to the type of kit used for oil & gas surveys shown in the ramform pic]- I never meant the dumb [cable, towing wire etc.] part of the array but the active & semi-active parts like the connectors, sensor heads & other "interesting bits" that you could use to effect a field repair.
Ignoring the tow cable, and the connecting cable, the working part of the array is huge. It also does not like being bent round sharp corners, which is why the reel is large diameter. You might manage to lay it out round the upper deck, if you had a hundred or so spare sailors and were not worried about damaging it further.

Even if you could hand the array you then have to get at a few hydrophones or whatever halfway down a drain pipe sized tube several hundred meters long , filled with special goo. After you are finished you need to refill the tube with goo ( no bubbles allowed) and reseal it so it stays watertight at great depth. All this is difficult enough in a factory, near impossible on a warship.

Finally you have to get your "mended" array back in the water without breaking it again. After that you can see if it now works.

The skipper of the T23 no doubt asked his WEO for options and then did the only practical thing and went home for a new array.

N

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Old 10th Jan 2022, 17:51
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Supposedly the relevant episode of 'Warship - life at sea' is on Channel 5 at 9 tonight
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Old 11th Jan 2022, 08:16
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Bengo & Donkey are correct - these are not bits of kit you can repair at sea
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Old 11th Jan 2022, 08:29
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MG
 
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Did I miss this incident? It looks like it'll be on next week, not last night. That's good spin from Ch5 to make us watch more than one episode!
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