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MRH90 Going, going. Gone

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MRH90 Going, going. Gone

Old 24th Dec 2021, 09:45
  #61 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by typerated View Post
I was just pointing out Australia is spending a lot of money on defence.
and only a tiny fraction of this on fire fighting machinery.
We seem to have a few this season. https://www.nafc.org.au/fleet/
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 10:26
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Genuine question - why does Australia have so many issues with procurement what do we have so far seasprite, tiger, the 90 and the subs ?

i know the Uk with nimrod x2 and the current tank fiasco is no better so not throwing stones
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 18:46
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dagenham View Post
Genuine question - why does Australia have so many issues with procurement what do we have so far seasprite, tiger, the 90 and the subs ?

i know the Uk with nimrod x2 and the current tank fiasco is no better so not throwing stones
Not to make this a pissing match of who is better or worse, the UK record is bad as well (Ajax, Challenger, warrior upgrades, SA-80, astute, dreadnought, QE class). I see the same issues with both countries, for australia there 2 major and 1 minor issue. The major issue the desire to australianise everything, I do think we have seen the light on that and it appears that we are just buying off the shelf with minor changes, secondly the desire to make everything made / assembled in australia damn the cost. We appear to be moving to a more selected and targetted program, maybe more forced than chose that action as a lot of the new stuff is american and they dont play that game. The last and minor we have a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 21:15
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by typerated View Post
Well it does lift more!

I wasn’t seriously suggesting having the fleet of NH-90s for fighting fires though!

I was just pointing out Australia is spending a lot of money on defence.
and only a tiny fraction of this on fire fighting machinery.

Seems more aligned to the politics of your current leadership rather than a risk analysis or common sense
So we are spending on Defence. So the region is rather benign and facing no uncertain geopolitical threats? Oh that's right, so NZ will look the other way and hope everything goes away.
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 22:25
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HK144 View Post
So we are spending on Defence. So the region is rather benign and facing no uncertain geopolitical threats? Oh that's right, so NZ will look the other way and hope everything goes away.
Thanks we appreciate it!

Actually you will find we are spending on defence - it's to keep climate refuges out from the West Island!
But - have you ever thought how venerable you are to using your flammable environment as a weapon against you?
Perhaps too scary to consider?
So maybe fire fighting equipment might be part of your defence?

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Old 24th Dec 2021, 23:20
  #66 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by typerated View Post
Thanks we appreciate it!

Actually you will find we are spending on defence - it's to keep climate refuges out from the West Island!?
What’s with the climate agenda? And don’t make me laugh, my family made a fortune selling Waiheke Island holdings to CCP goons. No CGT, profits funnelled into US businesses for other tax purposes. Your PM is in a tantrum over it behind closed doors though can’t get past the local government loopholes. NZ is tradable. And not a cent going to Kiwis in many circumstances.

Back to helicopters? French serviceability and cost issues with NH 90 researchable online.
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 23:48
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gnadenburg View Post
Back to helicopters? French serviceability and cost issues with NH 90 researchable online.

Theirs is the same as ours at around high 30's. Dunno how we define our servicability rate in australia but in france it looks to be if it can carry out it mission in 6 hours, its servicable
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Old 28th Dec 2021, 11:28
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Serviceability Definitions

Dunno how we define our servicability rate in australia but in france it looks to be if it can carry out it mission in 6 hours, its servicable
In the UK we had some very interesting definitions and very different ones for AVAILABILITY and SERVICEABILITY, but it never ceased to surprise me how many people could mix them up. They may have changed since my time though.

AVAILABLE was defined as being in the forward fleet, ie not in depth maintenance or modification and was usually a contracted output from industry (assuming industry were conducting depth/depot maintenance, as they were for most major fleets after DLTP)

SERVICEABLE was defined as being ready to fly a sortie (for the planned role) or being capable of being made ready in a certain period. This was usually the responsibility of the front line command and depended on lots of factors (role equipment, spares, reliability, tools, maintainer SQEP and numbers, command priority, tech information, infrastructure, GSE, ASSE, etc), many of which were outside of the ability for industry to deliver. Hence, industry was almost never held responsible for SERVICEABILITY rates (except for contracts like DHFS).

We didn't much bother with RELIABILITY rates, ie how often did it COMPLETE its planned tasking, which used to surprise me; especially with some of the helicopters fitted with complex mission kits.

ISTR that serviceability (measured as a %age of the departmental (whole) fleet) used to average somewhere between 35-45% (regardless of type, age, role or support contract), forward fleet average serviceability was usually around 50%, but deployed serviceability rates were usually in the 70-90%. As ever, "statistics and damn lies" can be made to answer pretty any question how you want it to look!

Hope this helps. Best of luck to the Aussies with their H-60 plans

Nick
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Old 28th Dec 2021, 11:43
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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No matter the outcomes of the NH90 in Australia, it was doomed from the start.

Strategically, it makes absolute sense to go with COTS US stuff however, culturally they will try to teach the yanks how to operate Blackhawk and Apache and turn both into RPT IFR Airliners and fly close form at the bottom of the valley.
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Old 2nd Jan 2022, 07:18
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NZ getting good use of theirs
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Old 2nd Jan 2022, 10:26
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by typerated View Post


NZ getting good use of theirs

SWEDEN'S VIEW OF THE NH90 POS

​​​​​​Sweden joins a growing number of dissatisfied users of the European made NH90 helicopters. NH90 first flew in 1995 and entered service in 2007. The manufacturer is a consortium of French, German, Dutch and Italian firms that promised to fix all the problems and eventually did, mostly. But some problems have proved intractable. Sweden pointed out that its 18 NH90s cost over $24,000 an hour to operate while its American made UH-60s cost only $4,500 an hour. Moreover the Swedish NH90s had a low readiness rate, about half that of the UH-60. Sweden had similar experience to other NH90 users and, unlike the naval versions of the UH-60, the naval version of NH90 had even more problems. In desperation Sweden ordered 16 UH-60s to fill in until the NH90 is fixed. Getting the NH90 to be comparable in performance to the older UH-60 appears to be perpetual problem.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 06:44
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rattman View Post
NHI (airbus australia) are apparently going to throw a lot of money at choppers to try and convince the govt to keep them.

2019 they had an availability rate of 37%, 2020 they got it up to a 39%. They hope to have an availability rate of 65% mid 2022, dunno how 65% compares to others like the blackhawks, but from memory 65% for jet fighters is considered not great. The F-22 still managed a 55% operational rate compared to a 39% for MRH-90
NHI, is not Airbus Australia. You knew that though.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 07:49
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Yes meant airbus helicopters
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 09:14
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Established in 1992, NHIndustries was formed as a partnership between Eurocopter of France, Germany and Spain (now Airbus Helicopters), Agusta of Italy (now Leonardo) and Stork Fokker Aerospace of the Netherlands (now Fokker Aerostructures).
...................
The main facilities of Airbus Helicopters are at its headquarters in Marignane, France and in Donauwörth, Germany, with additional production plants in Brazil (Helibras), Australia, Spain, Romania, UK and the United States. The company was renamed from Eurocopter to Airbus Helicopters on 2 January 2014.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 17:21
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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NHI = No Helicopter Intended........if you're not one of the founder members with priority ;-)
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Old 15th Jan 2022, 04:17
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golder View Post
Established in 1992, NHIndustries was formed as a partnership between Eurocopter of France, Germany and Spain (now Airbus Helicopters), Agusta of Italy (now Leonardo) and Stork Fokker Aerospace of the Netherlands (now Fokker Aerostructures).
...................
The main facilities of Airbus Helicopters are at its headquarters in Marignane, France and in Donauwörth, Germany, with additional production plants in Brazil (Helibras), Australia, Spain, Romania, UK and the United States. The company was renamed from Eurocopter to Airbus Helicopters on 2 January 2014.
The plants in the UK & Australia are not production facilities, they are maintenance.
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Old 15th Jan 2022, 06:39
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DHC4 View Post
The plants in the UK & Australia are not production facilities, they are maintenance.
"The MRH-90 Taipan is a twin-engine, advanced medium-lift, multi-role helicopter produced by Australian Aerospace, a subsidiary of Eurocopter (now Airbus Helicopters)."

Last edited by golder; 15th Jan 2022 at 06:50.
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Old 15th Jan 2022, 08:32
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golder View Post
"The MRH-90 Taipan is a twin-engine, advanced medium-lift, multi-role helicopter produced by Australian Aerospace, a subsidiary of Eurocopter (now Airbus Helicopters)."
The first 4 were built and assembled in margane france, the rest were built in france and assembled at australian aerospace in brisbane

Also germany is not happy with tiger and a MH-90 servicability
https://outline.com/qP7Lea

Last edited by rattman; 15th Jan 2022 at 10:17.
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Old 12th Feb 2022, 12:26
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Norway is also very unhappy with NHI, threatens to cancel the order.

Norway NH90

Last edited by Going Boeing; 12th Feb 2022 at 19:24.
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Old 13th Feb 2022, 02:00
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Spain has recently ordered some. God knows why.
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