MRH90 Going, going. Gone
MRH-90’s gone! Blackhawk replacements coming as early as 2023.
Updated link- Australia's PM stating the fleet unsafe and unreliable. Will the French protest? Or do they still have massive serviceability issues with their own fleet? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-10/scott-morrison-says-the-chopper-fleet-were-unsafe/13671512 |
Originally Posted by Gnadenburg
(Post 11153659)
MRH-90’s gone! Blackhawk replacements coming as early as 2023.
Your link has a paywall but I found this: https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/12...h-black-hawks/ This decision (& the likelihood of the HH-60W variant for the Special Forces) is probably behind the interest in the tanker version of the C130J. https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us...elicopter.html https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2068ce3a8.jpeg |
MRH90 Going, going. Gone
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-...ers/100688550\
Australia dumps troubled European-designed Taipan helicopters for US Black Hawks and SeahawksThe Australian Defence Force will ditch its entire fleet of troubled European-designed Taipan helicopters a decade earlier than scheduled, replacing them with new Black Hawks and Seahawks imported from the United States.Key points:
Army currently has 41 Taipans in service, which are operated out of Townsville and Oakey in Queensland, and flown by 6th Aviation Regiment in Sydney. MRH-90 helicopters have been in Army service since 2007 and despite some performance advantages over the Black Hawk, have been plagued with poor availability and fleet-wide groundings. The Defence Department had estimated the total cost of the MRH-90 program would top $15 billion by the time the helicopters were due to be withdrawn from service in 2037, but it has remained on the "projects of concern" list. https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn...862&height=575The ADF grounded all Taipan helicopters earlier this year due to safety and maintenance concerns.(ADF: Cameron Martin)Earlier this year the department revealed it was spending more than $37 million to hire civilian helicopters in Townsville to maintain capability while it dealt with long-running problems with the MRH-90 Taipans. Last year Defence also admitted the door on its multi-role Taipans was too narrow to allow its gun to fire while troops are descending from the aircraft. During a visit to Sydney's Victoria Barracks, Mr Dutton will confirm the government has decided to scrap all 47 of Army and Navy's Taipans, despite Defence Chief Angus Campbell last year praising them as "an extraordinarily advanced helicopter". Defence sources say Airbus was recently informed of Australia's decision, and the government is now approaching the United States government to buy up to 40 Black Hawks for the Army and 12 Seahawks for the Navy. In October the US revealed it had approved the $1.3 billion export to Australia of 12 Sikorsky Romeo Seahawk helicopters, which will eventually replace the Navy's six MRH-90s. Scrapping the Airbus helicopters comes just three months after the Morrison government sensationally cancelled the $90 billion French Attack-class submarine program in favour of acquiring nuclear boats under the AUKUS agreement with the UK and US. Defence industry figures say the decision to scrap the Taipans, which were assembled in Australia using a European design, signals the government is determined to prioritise defence capability over all other considerations, including local manufacturing. |
In October the US revealed it had approved the $1.3 billion export to Australia of 12 Sikorsky Romeo Seahawk helicopters, which will eventually replace the Navy's six MRH-90s. The Romeo is a warfighting helicopter, predominately anti-submarine, whereas the MRH-90 is primarily a transport helicopter. The SH-60 variant that would be the replacement for the MRH-90 is the SH-60S ("Sierra") When a story gets such a basic fact wrong, you have to wonder if the whole thing is either 'alternative facts' or maybe a kite flying exercise for the minister. |
Well thats a surprise to no one,
Makes the claims of 30 incoming C-130 (24 J's and 6 KC-130) a lot stronger as well.
Originally Posted by kiwi grey
(Post 11153723)
That's just wrong.
The Romeo is a warfighting helicopter, predominately anti-submarine, whereas the MRH-90 is primarily a transport helicopter. The SH-60 variant that would be the replacement for the MRH-90 is the SH-60S ("Sierra") When a story gets such a basic fact wrong, you have to wonder if the whole thing is either 'alternative facts' or maybe a kite flying exercise for the minister. The new R's ordered a few weeks ago are for the new ships we are building / commissioning but they are wrong about them being R variants but sounds like (not confirmed) the 12 romeos will be replacing the 12 (now 11) navy romeos that will be hitting EOL soon, UH will be replacing the a taipans and will be will be part of the pool aircraft top operate from Canberra and supply class The talk I am hearing the 24 ordered a few weeks ago were going onto the new surface combatants, the one announced today will be replacing the now 11 remaining on the old ones. The 11 will be modified, systems like the sonar bouy launcher removed to undertake the MH-60's roles as the mh-60'S is no longer produced |
New Zealand will be expecting an early Christmas - they will soon have most of their helicopter fleet as ex Aus military castoffs.
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Originally Posted by rjtjrt
(Post 11153742)
New Zealand will be expecting an early Christmas - they will soon have most of their helicopter fleet as ex Aus military castoffs.
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Originally Posted by rattman
(Post 11153725)
The new R's ordered a few weeks ago are for the new ships we are building / commissioning but they are wrong about them being R variants but sounds like (not confirmed) the 12 romeos will be replacing the 12 (now 11) navy romeos that will be hitting EOL soon, UH will be replacing the a taipans and will be will be part of the pool aircraft top operate from Canberra and supply class
The talk I am hearing the 24 ordered a few weeks ago were going onto the new surface combatants, the one announced today will be replacing the now 11 remaining on the old ones. The 11 will be modified, systems like the sonar bouy launcher removed to undertake the MH-60's roles as the mh-60'S is no longer produced I don’t know the plans to replace the Utility helicopter role but, some years ago, there was talk about stripping the ASW gear out of the original batch of Seahawks and using them in that role. A lot of the engine & airframe components are common with the Romeos so there was simpler logistics compared to having a separate fleet of MRH-90/NH-90’s operating off RAN vessels.
Originally Posted by rjtjrt
(Post 11153742)
New Zealand will be expecting an early Christmas - they will soon have most of their helicopter fleet as ex Aus military castoffs.
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Originally Posted by kiwi grey
(Post 11153723)
That's just wrong.
The Romeo is a warfighting helicopter, predominately anti-submarine, whereas the MRH-90 is primarily a transport helicopter. The SH-60 variant that would be the replacement for the MRH-90 is the SH-60S ("Sierra") When a story gets such a basic fact wrong, you have to wonder if the whole thing is either 'alternative facts' or maybe a kite flying exercise for the minister. |
Originally Posted by Going Boeing
(Post 11153780)
I don’t know the plans to replace the Utility helicopter role but, some years ago, there was talk about stripping the ASW gear out of the original batch of Seahawks and using them in that role. A lot of the engine & airframe components are common with the Romeos so there was simpler logistics compared to having a separate fleet of MRH-90/NH-90’s operating off RAN vessels
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ARMY: BREAKING - Army to retire MRH 90 Taipans 10 years early & replace with Black Hawks | ADBR
40 UH-60Ms for ARMY $7 Billion for them: Australia to scrap Taipan army helicopters (msn.com) |
The Army always wanted the Blackhawk & Apache but, it was rumoured that the Defence Minister in 2004 (Senator Robert Hill) over-rode that recommendation and ordered the Taipan & Tiger. If that’s true, there has been a huge waste of tax payer money because of his decisions.
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Who remembers the Seasprites?:}
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I heard the reason for the reliability issues was more to do with bureaucracy within RAAF/Army/USA. I don't know the specifics but no doubt someone else will and correct me as it was a quick conversation But something along the lines that the maintenance software used by the Army/RAAF is based on the CAMS=FM which is American. The Taipan maintenance doesn't mesh into that, and so spares were often not around. Routine maintenance hard to plan etc. The actual aircraft apparently is pretty good. But Army also just wanted Blackhawk from the start. This info came from an Army pilot who seemed to think it was a lot more about bloody mindedness on the part of armies full of bureaucrats and god help us if we had to fight a war type of thing and a giant waste of money scrapping them early. That would certainly be consistent with pretty much every other acquisition Australia has had over the last 20 yrs.
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Other users of these helicopters have had sustainment and availability issues.
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Originally Posted by extralite
(Post 11153844)
I heard the reason for the reliability issues was more to do with bureaucracy within RAAF/Army/USA. I don't know the specifics but no doubt someone else will and correct me as it was a quick conversation But something along the lines that the maintenance software used by the Army/RAAF is based on the CAMS=FM which is American. The Taipan maintenance doesn't mesh into that, and so spares were often not around. Routine maintenance hard to plan etc. The actual aircraft apparently is pretty good. But Army also just wanted Blackhawk from the start. This info came from an Army pilot who seemed to think it was a lot more about bloody mindedness on the part of armies full of bureaucrats and god help us if we had to fight a war type of thing and a giant waste of money scrapping them early. That would certainly be consistent with pretty much every other acquisition Australia has had over the last 20 yrs.
Norway is looking at replacements for coast guard / SAR work due to MRH-90 limitations, germany is buying apaches, not comment as to what happening with their tigers Also the aircon took them 5 years to fix, the ramp couldn't be used for a many years as deployment of the ramp flexed the airframe as the floor was not strong enough. This forced the infrantry out the doors, problem was you couldn't have a door gunner as there was not enough room |
Originally Posted by kiwi grey
(Post 11153723)
That's just wrong.
The Romeo is a warfighting helicopter, predominately anti-submarine, whereas the MRH-90 is primarily a transport helicopter. The SH-60 variant that would be the replacement for the MRH-90 is the SH-60S ("Sierra") When a story gets such a basic fact wrong, you have to wonder if the whole thing is either 'alternative facts' or maybe a kite flying exercise for the minister. |
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend
(Post 11153869)
. NZ should not be commenting on defence matters...
and also it gives you a chance to be good at something seeing that you are a bit crap at sports :) |
typerated,
As an Englishman, I could not support the view that the aussies are 'crap at sport' - they're doing a good job against the village cricket team sent out recently from UK!!!!!!!!!!!! Old Duffer |
Originally Posted by Old-Duffer
(Post 11153917)
typerated,
As an Englishman, I could not support the view that the aussies are 'crap at sport' - they're doing a good job against the village cricket team sent out recently from UK!!!!!!!!!!!! Old Duffer Australians are the sons of convicts and at best unsporting and usually cheating - Underarm bowling, sandpapering the ball! But even if you are whitewashed in the Ashes don't take it to heart. There will be merriment soon to be had. Australian captains never last too long and almost always are disgraced and leave in floods of tears and regret – oh how they fall! |
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