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MRH90 Going, going. Gone

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MRH90 Going, going. Gone

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Old 12th Dec 2021, 20:41
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How many ac is the NMH contract looking for…….if it is still going ahead?
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Old 12th Dec 2021, 22:34
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Originally Posted by JeanKhul
Could it be that the problems might come from the local maintenance performance ? Other countries seem to be very happy.
France has been using them in Chad and Ami for a couple of years, and a lot NATO Navies do enjoy them.
It is done by the EU company in Australia. Australian Aerospace, a unit of Eurocopter (now Airbus Helicopters)
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Old 12th Dec 2021, 22:44
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Originally Posted by Going Boeing
This article gives an idea of how expensive it had become to operate & the last paragraph summed it up well.



https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/du...oLVMotWqn5oVrw
The eventually retired Black hawks have been discussed about being made available for firefighting, know someone who flys a huey firebomber and being ex blackhawk pilot and said his company is looking at tendering to buy a few if the casa hurdles can be jumped. Taipans have zero chance of competing in any sort of commercial work, they are great chopper to fly according to him, probably one of best he has flown. But the cost per hour is rediculous
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Old 13th Dec 2021, 05:47
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VERTREP Chinook

The RAN MRH-90 were more for VERTREP and carrying the Marines so I guess the AAAC CH-47F will be doing this from now on?


Cheers
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Old 13th Dec 2021, 09:19
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Originally Posted by chopper2004
The RAN MRH-90 were more for VERTREP and carrying the Marines so I guess the AAAC CH-47F will be doing this from now on?

Cheers
Never seen a chinook do SAR/winching, so that might be one missing role.
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 21:31
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DEFENCE MRH90

Since the MRH was introduced Defence have flown close to 40000 flying hours on the fleet.
If the cost per hour is what the article states plus the acquisition and the replacement cost of a different frame - then how dare they waste the tax payers money to that extent.
I have not read anywhere where this colossal waste has been revealed to the public.
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Old 22nd Dec 2021, 20:59
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On another place I go, someone claims that a sweden is considering abandoning thier NH90 due to obscene flight cost, was announced on a radio news show so I have no way to confirm the truth of the claim or not

Wonder where I have heard that before

(thanks mod who moved it, posted in the wrong thread by accident)

Last edited by rattman; 22nd Dec 2021 at 21:20.
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Old 22nd Dec 2021, 22:55
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Sweden has also purchased the UH60M.
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Old 22nd Dec 2021, 22:59
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Originally Posted by ROTOR BLAST
Since the MRH was introduced Defence have flown close to 40000 flying hours on the fleet.
If the cost per hour is what the article states plus the acquisition and the replacement cost of a different frame - then how dare they waste the tax payers money to that extent.
I have not read anywhere where this colossal waste has been revealed to the public.
Most of the open source Defence and Aviation journals have posted the flying hour costs as well as some News articles in the general media. One thing to remember, whilst we have the upfront costs of the UH60M, over the life of the fleet they will cost just under $2B less to operate than the MRH90.
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Old 23rd Dec 2021, 13:19
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Originally Posted by HK144
Most of the open source Defence and Aviation journals have posted the flying hour costs as well as some News articles in the general media. One thing to remember, whilst we have the upfront costs of the UH60M, over the life of the fleet they will cost just under $2B less to operate than the MRH90.
Mathematics appears simple at the basic level. Statistics are merely an interpretation of preferred facts.

The figures that are being published need to be put into context. How many soldiers can each platform carry? How much airframe corrosion maintenance is required when embarked? What is the corrosion penalty? What extra infrastructure is required for the new platform? What are the Maintenance Tooling costs? The list goes on! Let us stop the BS, please!

There are strategic requirements, which are valid. There are also cultural brand allegiance desires, which are not valid. Let us recognise the difference.
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Old 23rd Dec 2021, 13:58
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Originally Posted by Doors Off
Mathematics appears simple at the basic level. Statistics are merely an interpretation of preferred facts.

The figures that are being published need to be put into context. How many soldiers can each platform carry? How much airframe corrosion maintenance is required when embarked? What is the corrosion penalty? What extra infrastructure is required for the new platform? What are the Maintenance Tooling costs? The list goes on! Let us stop the BS, please!

There are strategic requirements, which are valid. There are also cultural brand allegiance desires, which are not valid. Let us recognise the difference.
If it was just Australia complaining about the NH-90 and the Tiger. You may have had a point. Unfortunately, given that other nations are complaining and that Thales is a major defense supplier in Australia. I don't think you do.
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Old 23rd Dec 2021, 16:45
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Originally Posted by JeanKhul
Could it be that the problems might come from the local maintenance performance ? Other countries seem to be very happy.
France has been using them in Chad and Ami for a couple of years, and a lot NATO Navies do enjoy them.
Norway is considering leasing a commercial solution because its NH90s aren't up to the embarked coast guard role. Sweden is considering replacing its NH90s. Belgium has scaled back its NH90 operations due to high costs.

I don't know how 'happy' France or the other operators are, but it is certainly a programme with serious ongoing issues.
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 00:39
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Originally Posted by Doors Off
Mathematics appears simple at the basic level. Statistics are merely an interpretation of preferred facts.

The figures that are being published need to be put into context. How many soldiers can each platform carry? How much airframe corrosion maintenance is required when embarked? What is the corrosion penalty? What extra infrastructure is required for the new platform? What are the Maintenance Tooling costs? The list goes on! Let us stop the BS, please!

There are strategic requirements, which are valid. There are also cultural brand allegiance desires, which are not valid. Let us recognise the difference.
How very condescending of you. We are not alone in having issues with the MRH90 and/or Tiger platforms. Multiple countries are also planning early replacements or have already done so. If the 'Mike' does the job so be it. The MRH90 may carry a couple more troops and both the MRH90 and Tiger may be newer; however, rather pointless when they are not able to fly. As for 'cultural brand allegiances' what rubbish.
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 03:39
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Yet NZ is happy with the NH-90!
But you also managed to make even more of a mess of the Seasprites - Australian procurement is world leadingly awful!

While the Army might be much more happy to deploy with Blackhawks, Perhaps the military should still field the NH-90 for the biggest and most imminent threat facing the country:
Bushfires!



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Old 24th Dec 2021, 05:29
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Originally Posted by typerated
Yet NZ is happy with the NH-90!
Perhaps the military should still field the NH-90 for the biggest and most imminent threat facing the country:
Bushfires!
Well they do have a track record of starting a good bushfire!
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 05:52
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NHI (airbus australia) are apparently going to throw a lot of money at choppers to try and convince the govt to keep them.

2019 they had an availability rate of 37%, 2020 they got it up to a 39%. They hope to have an availability rate of 65% mid 2022, dunno how 65% compares to others like the blackhawks, but from memory 65% for jet fighters is considered not great. The F-22 still managed a 55% operational rate compared to a 39% for MRH-90
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 06:23
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Originally Posted by SRFred
Well they do have a track record of starting a good bushfire!
Sharp! forgot about that!
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 06:34
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Originally Posted by typerated
Yet NZ is happy with the NH-90!
But you also managed to make even more of a mess of the Seasprites - Australian procurement is world leadingly awful!

While the Army might be much more happy to deploy with Blackhawks, Perhaps the military should still field the NH-90 for the biggest and most imminent threat facing the country:
Bushfires!
Why would you pay 30K an hour when you use a Bell 205 for about $1500 a flight hour
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 06:50
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Well it does lift more!

I wasn’t seriously suggesting having the fleet of NH-90s for fighting fires though!

I was just pointing out Australia is spending a lot of money on defence.
and only a tiny fraction of this on fire fighting machinery.

Seems more aligned to the politics of your current leadership rather than a risk analysis or common sense
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Old 24th Dec 2021, 07:26
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Originally Posted by typerated
Well it does lift more!
Believe it limited by the size of the bambi buckets, from what I have been told the 205 and all the medium lift choppers all use the same size
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