The Janitor
Thread Starter
The Janitor
An otherwise invisible MoH winner. A valuable lesson about not looking down on people.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wor...f_honor-x.html
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wor...f_honor-x.html
My Grandfather was nominated for the Medal of Honor for going out under direct enemy fire three times and retrieving wounded Soldiers during an ambush by Philippine Guerrillas during the Insurrection of 1898.
While stationed at Subic Bay I had the opportunity to visit the isolated valley high up in the mountains of Luzon where the combat actin had occurred.
Grand Dad wound up with the DSC instead fo the MOH.....I firmly believe had he not been just a Private....he would have had the Medal.
I do know where I get my sarcastic streak from.....in an exchange of letters between him and his Platoon Leader who had written the Recommendation for the Award....and in response to the LT's laudatory comments....Grand Dad said "It was not a big deal really....I felt like as long as they were aiming at me I was safe!".
I once had the honor of meeting Roy Benavidez who earned the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War....he was another very humble unassuming Man who had done such an unbelievable feat of gallantry.
Take a few minutes and read up on his last day in combat....it is an incredible story.
While stationed at Subic Bay I had the opportunity to visit the isolated valley high up in the mountains of Luzon where the combat actin had occurred.
Grand Dad wound up with the DSC instead fo the MOH.....I firmly believe had he not been just a Private....he would have had the Medal.
I do know where I get my sarcastic streak from.....in an exchange of letters between him and his Platoon Leader who had written the Recommendation for the Award....and in response to the LT's laudatory comments....Grand Dad said "It was not a big deal really....I felt like as long as they were aiming at me I was safe!".
I once had the honor of meeting Roy Benavidez who earned the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War....he was another very humble unassuming Man who had done such an unbelievable feat of gallantry.
Take a few minutes and read up on his last day in combat....it is an incredible story.
Many heroes do not seek any limelight - a few years back a senior local councillor -maybe the Deputy Major - in Guildford died. They discovered he'd won a George Cross (the UK's highest gallantry award for civilians) in WW2 - never mentioned it, shoved the medal in drawer.
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What is it with janitors? Not quite on the same level as Private Crawford, my first job, post training, was at RAF Stafford with 4 Flt 2 MES servicing GSE. The hangar janitor once let slip that he had served in WW2 achieving WO by the end of the war. The thing that apparently undermined his story was that he retired the service as, I think, a sergeant. Unlike Private Crawford, he was unfortunately not widely believed. His WO rank was probably temporary wartime rank, a concept not understood by my colleagues - all unread, callow youth of the 1970s. I believe some were also permitted to remain in the shrinking Service after the war if they took lower rank.
It's a pity that the cadets only "regarded him as one of their own" once they found out he had the MoH.
I believe some were also permitted to remain in the shrinking Service after the war if they took lower rank.
For those of a historical bent some of the most spectacular promotions and then demotions occurred in and after the US Civil War
George Custer's career was typical:-Second lieutenant, 2nd Cavalry: June 24, 1861
First lieutenant, 5th Cavalry: July 17, 1862
Captain staff, additional aide-de-camp: June 5, 1862
Brigadier general, U.S. Volunteers: June 29, 1863
Brevet major, July 3, 1863 (Battle of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania)
Captain, 5th Cavalry: May 8, 1864
Brevet lieutenant colonel: May 11, 1864 (Battle of Yellow Tavern – Combat at Meadow)
Brevet colonel: September 19, 1864 (Battle of Winchester, Virginia)
Brevet major general, U.S. Volunteers: October 19, 1864 (Battle of Winchester and Fisher's Hill, Virginia)
Brevet brigadier general, U.S. Army, March 13, 1865 (Battle of Five Forks, Virginia)
Brevet major general, U.S. Army: March 13, 1865 (The campaign ending in the surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia)
Major general, U.S. Volunteers: April 15, 1865
Mustered out of Volunteer Service: February 1, 1866
Lieutenant colonel, 7th Cavalry: July 28, 1866 (killed at the Battle of the Little Bighorn, June 25, 1876)
George Custer's career was typical:-Second lieutenant, 2nd Cavalry: June 24, 1861
First lieutenant, 5th Cavalry: July 17, 1862
Captain staff, additional aide-de-camp: June 5, 1862
Brigadier general, U.S. Volunteers: June 29, 1863
Brevet major, July 3, 1863 (Battle of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania)
Captain, 5th Cavalry: May 8, 1864
Brevet lieutenant colonel: May 11, 1864 (Battle of Yellow Tavern – Combat at Meadow)
Brevet colonel: September 19, 1864 (Battle of Winchester, Virginia)
Brevet major general, U.S. Volunteers: October 19, 1864 (Battle of Winchester and Fisher's Hill, Virginia)
Brevet brigadier general, U.S. Army, March 13, 1865 (Battle of Five Forks, Virginia)
Brevet major general, U.S. Army: March 13, 1865 (The campaign ending in the surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia)
Major general, U.S. Volunteers: April 15, 1865
Mustered out of Volunteer Service: February 1, 1866
Lieutenant colonel, 7th Cavalry: July 28, 1866 (killed at the Battle of the Little Bighorn, June 25, 1876)
At RAF South Cerney, in late 1961, the Guardroom Corporal wore Pilots wings, DSO and DFC with his wartime medals. i was told that he had risen to be a Wing Commander commanding a Heavy Bomber Squadron.
He had left the RAF after the war but could not settle in the civilian world. He rejoined the RAF, but did not have the acedemic qualifications for commisioning;.I was told that the minimum rank for ex-cfficers was Corporal in those circumstances.
In the 60s and 70s there were several of my acquaintances who retired as Flight Lieutenants retaining the rank of Wing Commander from their wartime acting rank.
He had left the RAF after the war but could not settle in the civilian world. He rejoined the RAF, but did not have the acedemic qualifications for commisioning;.I was told that the minimum rank for ex-cfficers was Corporal in those circumstances.
In the 60s and 70s there were several of my acquaintances who retired as Flight Lieutenants retaining the rank of Wing Commander from their wartime acting rank.
". He rejoined the RAF, but did not have the acedemic qualifications for commisioning"
makes you weep really.......................
makes you weep really.......................
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My first ATC Mentor at Strubby was an Aussie MPlt, ex-Sqn Ldr on Typhoons (WW2 version). Post-War, he was deemed “not the type” to hold a commission, and reverted to Sgt Pilot and worked his way up that ladder. He was not over-impressed by baby Direct Entry Plt Offs, but was a bloody good teacher of all things ATC and RAF. RIP, Jack, I’m still grateful for the insights you gave me.
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MPN11 could you elaborate on what traits could typically curse someone with the "not the type" badge? It would seem this person was a fine pilot/ leader of men if he made Sqn Ldr?
Just curious, thanks.
Just curious, thanks.
When I joined the RAF in 1958 there were lots of chaps of low rank with brevets and medals. When I was on 92 our line chief had an AG brevet. One day one of the pilots asked him what a/c he had been on. When he said the Blenheim a marked tone of respect appeared as their casualty rate was horrendous. My first bank manager had flown Halifaxes in 4 Group as a WO but then had been reduced to LAC at the war end. When I was on JATE we had a civilian cleaner who had flown RAF Mustangs and Thunderbolts ! When I was on 33 (Javelin) a cookhouse worker had been an NCO pilot on the same squadron as our boss. On 47 we had an Air Engineer who had flown Sabres and then left. When he applied to rejoin it was all officer pilots/navs then so being an ex apprentice he became an Air Eng. Finally on 30 Sqn at RAF Fairford we had an ex Spitfire pilot who had flown them in Malta. He was then an Air Quartermaster. No doubt there are many others I just wish I had asked more of them about their service history.
"wcould typically curse someone with the "not the type" badge?"
almost certainly NOT a Gentleman - wrong school, no further education, accent, probably cussed like a trooper, no contacts or family history of service............... the list is long when what you wanted post war was "people like us" same (or worse) in the RN
almost certainly NOT a Gentleman - wrong school, no further education, accent, probably cussed like a trooper, no contacts or family history of service............... the list is long when what you wanted post war was "people like us" same (or worse) in the RN
Asturias
I’m really sorry but I just don’t get why you’re here.
You freely admit to having never served in the military yet you are quick to comment on all matters pertaining to HM Forces and post as if you are one of the foremost authorities on the subject.
Please tell me I’m wrong about you.
BV
You freely admit to having never served in the military yet you are quick to comment on all matters pertaining to HM Forces and post as if you are one of the foremost authorities on the subject.
Please tell me I’m wrong about you.
BV
"wcould typically curse someone with the "not the type" badge?"
almost certainly NOT a Gentleman - wrong school, no further education, accent, probably cussed like a trooper, no contacts or family history of service............... the list is long when what you wanted post war was "people like us" same (or worse) in the RN
almost certainly NOT a Gentleman - wrong school, no further education, accent, probably cussed like a trooper, no contacts or family history of service............... the list is long when what you wanted post war was "people like us" same (or worse) in the RN
Video Mix and BV... When MPN11 used the phrase, 'not the type' in his post, my thought went immediately to something like Asturius's view. A Brash, aggressive (handy in war) maybe foul-mouthed Aussie, 'not PLU'*.
What did you think MPN11 meant?
CG
*people like us
(I'm not either, I suspect)
What did you think MPN11 meant?
CG
*people like us
(I'm not either, I suspect)
CG
I have no issue with anything MPN wrote and I’m sure he’s quite correct in his assertions.
What I do take issue with is the constant proselytising from someone who is not really qualified to comment on such matters.
BV
What I do take issue with is the constant proselytising from someone who is not really qualified to comment on such matters.
BV
When I reported as a shiny new Met Assistant to RAF Uxbridge in 1957, there were definitely airmen, mostly corporals, with brevets and gallantry medal ribbons. One was reputed to have the VC. He was pointed out to me but I was too ignorant then to recognise a dull crimson ribbon with a little cross on it.
Uxbridge was the home of bullsh1t at that time ............ except the traditionally scruffy Met Office.
Uxbridge was the home of bullsh1t at that time ............ except the traditionally scruffy Met Office.
