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Salute!
Best thing about all those Vipers is a myriad of experienced wrenchbenders and pilots available versus the A-4 and other platforms we need but have less available support personnel.
Gums sends..
Best thing about all those Vipers is a myriad of experienced wrenchbenders and pilots available versus the A-4 and other platforms we need but have less available support personnel.
Gums sends..
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Last flew as red air about a month ago. Last flew against red air today. Current platform F35. I assume you've not seen the F35 sim and are talking about legacy platforms with legacy sims. On both of my previous types I would have agreed with you, but not anymore.
I can lead and teach 4 ship tactics probably better in the sim for many reasons that I won't discuss here - those that know, know
Of course there are many things you can't get from the sim and need to go flying to experience - dip plans, fallout, actual weather, fear, ATC issues, civil traffic, NOTAMS etc etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'll take a flight over a sim any day. But you need to realise the world has progressed since the 1980s F3 sim...
I can lead and teach 4 ship tactics probably better in the sim for many reasons that I won't discuss here - those that know, know
Of course there are many things you can't get from the sim and need to go flying to experience - dip plans, fallout, actual weather, fear, ATC issues, civil traffic, NOTAMS etc etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'll take a flight over a sim any day. But you need to realise the world has progressed since the 1980s F3 sim...
You say you last flew as Red a month ago, so you flew F35 as red on a TI sortie?
Salute!
The 1980's sims were not as good as the early 2000's PC stuff if you had good graphics engines and decent CPU speed, maybe multiple monitors.
Nevertheless, when flying actual missions there is that factor that if you screw up or have a bad day or the other guy is really, really good...you can't hit the "esc" key and start over, nor can your wimgmen.
I really learned a lot in the Red Flag and Green Flag exercises so long ago, even with a ton of real life experience behind me. So I respect any here that have actually stood in front of 200+ folks and briefed the mission for the day as I had to do only once. I do not know how the exercises can duplicate the stealth and friendly force coordination that the new plane provides. And I would hope any F-35 pilot here or his opposing friend could talk about how things worked out.
Bottom line is that I enjoy posts from folks that have touched the elephant, or came close, versus the "wisdom" of the pinball wizards here and the pencil pushers in some office using cost-effectiveness models.
Gums sends...
The 1980's sims were not as good as the early 2000's PC stuff if you had good graphics engines and decent CPU speed, maybe multiple monitors.
Nevertheless, when flying actual missions there is that factor that if you screw up or have a bad day or the other guy is really, really good...you can't hit the "esc" key and start over, nor can your wimgmen.
I really learned a lot in the Red Flag and Green Flag exercises so long ago, even with a ton of real life experience behind me. So I respect any here that have actually stood in front of 200+ folks and briefed the mission for the day as I had to do only once. I do not know how the exercises can duplicate the stealth and friendly force coordination that the new plane provides. And I would hope any F-35 pilot here or his opposing friend could talk about how things worked out.
Bottom line is that I enjoy posts from folks that have touched the elephant, or came close, versus the "wisdom" of the pinball wizards here and the pencil pushers in some office using cost-effectiveness models.
Gums sends...
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Gums,
US A-10 pilots are now using DCS world and thrustmaster A10 HOTAS set ups with Virtual Reality to train on as an aid to the main sims, I have the same set u they are using and it is surprisingly realistic as it puts you in a 3d cockpit with the sense of height etc.
Top Aces A-4N AESA Radar
if you wonder what's possible now a a gaming PC set up
And to show you the graphics now
US A-10 pilots are now using DCS world and thrustmaster A10 HOTAS set ups with Virtual Reality to train on as an aid to the main sims, I have the same set u they are using and it is surprisingly realistic as it puts you in a 3d cockpit with the sense of height etc.
"This prepares them for flying events better than any other training tool we have at a higher availability," Major Glowa, the A-10 instructor pilot, said last year. "Now we can review specific tasks in a real-world environment by supplementing our four traditional simulator bays and giving students 22 more cockpits to practice on their own or with an instructor. We can expedite ground training to prepare students for flights at a pace we have never seen. We are transforming the way we train pilots and will be able to actually increase quality faster and add remedial training at almost any time. This will expedite the time it takes to get students ready for their flights."
if you wonder what's possible now a a gaming PC set up
And to show you the graphics now
Last edited by NutLoose; 20th May 2021 at 14:14.
And all at +1G....
That's why real pilots are so sceptical about increasing levels of simulation than are bean counters seduced by the flashy graphics of gaming applications...
I recall an exercise during AFTS termed 'Medium Level Turns'. This involved about 30 min of high G turning "Pull to 5G, squeeze to 6....how many fingers am I holding up?" Huffing and puffing against the anti-G suit whilst trying to look into your six.... Probably followed by STUPRECC recovery. No amount of simulation can match that!
That's why real pilots are so sceptical about increasing levels of simulation than are bean counters seduced by the flashy graphics of gaming applications...
I recall an exercise during AFTS termed 'Medium Level Turns'. This involved about 30 min of high G turning "Pull to 5G, squeeze to 6....how many fingers am I holding up?" Huffing and puffing against the anti-G suit whilst trying to look into your six.... Probably followed by STUPRECC recovery. No amount of simulation can match that!
Last edited by BEagle; 20th May 2021 at 21:46.
Yep, sitting at a computer terminal, at 1 G, with no mil spec inputs/threats - it’s real! The Bean counters and buffoon commanders are fooled by flashy graphics.
And all at +1G....
That's why real pilots are so sceptical about increasing levels of simulation than are bean counters seduced by the flashy graphics of gaming applications...
I recall an exercise during AFTS termed 'Medium Level Turns'. This involved about 30 min of high G turning "Pull to 5G, squeeze to 6....how many fingers am I holding up?" Huffing and puffing against the anti-G suit whilst trying to look into your six.... Probably followed by STUPRECC recovery. No amount of simulation can match that!
That's why real pilots are so sceptical about increasing levels of simulation than are bean counters seduced by the flashy graphics of gaming applications...
I recall an exercise during AFTS termed 'Medium Level Turns'. This involved about 30 min of high G turning "Pull to 5G, squeeze to 6....how many fingers am I holding up?" Huffing and puffing against the anti-G suit whilst trying to look into your six.... Probably followed by STUPRECC recovery. No amount of simulation can match that!
You say you last flew as Red a month ago, so you flew F35 as red on a TI sortie?
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This is similar, forget the graphics, the operation is built around the A-10 and its systems, it also uses metal replica A-10 Hotas controllers allowing students to practice various items that they may not be able to get time in the main sims to do or on the aircraft.. It is an accurately based system of what the A-10 does, in fact there was recently a case of some F16 manuals being obtained of Ebay to improve the accuracy of the F16, see the link below.
It's a heck of a better way to teach a student with the aid of an instructor who can use the controllers and see it 3D in VR than to use 2d images on a screen and say press this and it does this etc.. No sims will never replace real flight and G, but it will enhance the teaching and learning environment and to simply dismiss it as a fancy graphic game is doing it a diservice, its probably surpassed the military technology available 10 years ago.,
If it wasn't of a benefit to the student the USAF would never have invested in it..Period!
There are also other benefits, I remember ACMI in the 80's and the screens used for that, now fast forward to today and a quote from the article.
"VR has proven to be a tremendous tool for showing specific sight pictures that would otherwise be impossible to show via 2D pictures and traditional academic material," a spokesperson for the 355th Wing told The War Zone, who also confirmed that technology was being used in conjunction with the DCS gaming software. "We are also using VR headsets for students to view 360-degree training footage, and communities all across the Air Force are starting to adopt similar platforms for multiple different career fields."
"We are using virtual reality simulation to provide an immersive trainer for students," Air Force Major Drew Glowa, a 355th Training Squadron instructor pilot, had also said an interview for an official Air Force news item last year. "Training includes all aspects of operating the A-10 to include, but not limited to: ground operations, start-taxi-take offs, landings, formation flying, weapons employment, threat reactions, air-to-air refueling and other critical capabilities."
“There are two distinct lines of effort in our VR program," Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Tim Manning, the commanding officer of the 355th Training Squadron, added in a separate interview at that time. "First is the lab where students can fly the A-10 and practice tasks and the second, is having actual flights filmed in 360-degree video, viewed on VR headsets."
“There are two distinct lines of effort in our VR program," Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Tim Manning, the commanding officer of the 355th Training Squadron, added in a separate interview at that time. "First is the lab where students can fly the A-10 and practice tasks and the second, is having actual flights filmed in 360-degree video, viewed on VR headsets."
Using DCS, "we can now demonstrate exactly what it looks like flying on the wing of a tanker and subsequently flying to the correct position behind it to refuel," the 355th spokesperson told us an example of the training that is now available through the A-10 simulator lab. "Leveraging DCS’s impressive visuals in VR, we are able to have students fly and practice the correct positions themselves, which is very valuable training for a single-seat aircraft. No 2D screen can show the same level of depth perception required to accurately fly these types of close formations."
"This prepares them for flying events better than any other training tool we have at a higher availability," Major Glowa, the A-10 instructor pilot, said last year. "Now we can review specific tasks in a real-world environment by supplementing our four traditional simulator bays and giving students 22 more cockpits to practice on their own or with an instructor. We can expedite ground training to prepare students for flights at a pace we have never seen. We are transforming the way we train pilots and will be able to actually increase quality faster and add remedial training at almost any time. This will expedite the time it takes to get students ready for their flights."
I actually posted the wrong link earlier, this is the USAF using the "Gaming " sim
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...to-train-in-vr
https://www.insider.com/the-us-says-...-russia-2019-5
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Watch the film
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Totally agree, you cannot use a simulator to teach basic flying such as steep turns or the like. For what it's worth, I am not flying fewer "live" hours now than I was on my previous platform, but I am going to the sim more often - and getting more out of each sim than I ever did on my previous type. I'm absolutely not advocating cutting flights to be replaced by sims, just pointing out that much more can be gained in the sim these days than could have been gained in the (fairly recent!) past.
I am not going to give you an exact answer because I'm not at work, but in the past 2-3 months I've flown red for TI, in LFEs, for other platforms and for in-house training.
I am not going to give you an exact answer because I'm not at work, but in the past 2-3 months I've flown red for TI, in LFEs, for other platforms and for in-house training.
You do know there are several airforces around the world flying the jet? Other airforces with considerably more than 15 or so aircraft in country? So I doubt you would have been around. I would give you more details, sweetheart, but I don’t need to justify myself to a stranger on the internet.
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You do know there are several airforces around the world flying the jet? Other airforces with considerably more than 15 or so aircraft in country? So I doubt you would have been around. I would give you more details, sweetheart, but I don’t need to justify myself to a stranger on the internet.
Foghorn
I wish you no ill will but I felt I should point out that Runaway Gun has been posting on here for many years. He is a very experienced FJ aviator and if he says he is involved with the F35 then I am inclined to believe him.
Whilst I also believe you are intimately involved with the F35 (and I probably know you!) it may be worth conceding that maybe you misjudged him?
Maybe resolve it in private if required?
BV
Whilst I also believe you are intimately involved with the F35 (and I probably know you!) it may be worth conceding that maybe you misjudged him?
Maybe resolve it in private if required?
BV
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I wish you no ill will but I felt I should point out that Runaway Gun has been posting on here for many years. He is a very experienced FJ aviator and if he says he is involved with the F35 then I am inclined to believe him.
Whilst I also believe you are intimately involved with the F35 (and I probably know you!) it may be worth conceding that maybe you misjudged him?
Maybe resolve it in private if required?
BV
Whilst I also believe you are intimately involved with the F35 (and I probably know you!) it may be worth conceding that maybe you misjudged him?
Maybe resolve it in private if required?
BV
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Have we all kissed and made up? Good....
Moving on, the first private F16 has flown in the USA and will be the first of a fleet of 29 Vipers that will be used for training against the US Military.
https://robbreport.com/motors/aviati...h-1234614622/W
Moving on, the first private F16 has flown in the USA and will be the first of a fleet of 29 Vipers that will be used for training against the US Military.
https://robbreport.com/motors/aviati...h-1234614622/W
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Have we all kissed and made up? Good....
Moving on, the first private F16 has flown in the USA and will be the first of a fleet of 29 Vipers that will be used for training against the US Military.
https://robbreport.com/motors/aviati...h-1234614622/W
Moving on, the first private F16 has flown in the USA and will be the first of a fleet of 29 Vipers that will be used for training against the US Military.
https://robbreport.com/motors/aviati...h-1234614622/W
Salute!
Good to see interest in the IAF Vipers now being used as adversary platforms. Plenty of action over on the Colonial venue, aka F-16.net.
The move from Israel was special for this old curmudgeon, as I was an IP for the first and only IAF class to train at Hill back in 1980. Good bunch, and no 1967 war vets but some Yom Kippur ones. The class also included the nugget that flew on the reactor mission ( Opera?), then became an astronaut and was on Columbia at its end, RIP. Got an autographed gun camera kill shot from one of that bunch. Heh heh.
A sharp youngster pointed out the big tail on the early block Viper and that launched a good sequence of posts by one GD old fart and another early user - me!
https://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56584
Gonna be an education for many folks when those small and agile Vipers show up. Big thanks to the Duck for the link.
Gums sends...
Good to see interest in the IAF Vipers now being used as adversary platforms. Plenty of action over on the Colonial venue, aka F-16.net.
The move from Israel was special for this old curmudgeon, as I was an IP for the first and only IAF class to train at Hill back in 1980. Good bunch, and no 1967 war vets but some Yom Kippur ones. The class also included the nugget that flew on the reactor mission ( Opera?), then became an astronaut and was on Columbia at its end, RIP. Got an autographed gun camera kill shot from one of that bunch. Heh heh.
A sharp youngster pointed out the big tail on the early block Viper and that launched a good sequence of posts by one GD old fart and another early user - me!
https://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56584
Gonna be an education for many folks when those small and agile Vipers show up. Big thanks to the Duck for the link.
Gums sends...
