Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Myeloma and aircrew

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Myeloma and aircrew

Old 3rd May 2021, 23:28
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 64
Posts: 1,259
Myeloma and aircrew

This has literally just popped up in today’s Times.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...umes-6wr0htcr2
air pig is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 01:31
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,013
Peculiar, jet exhaust does not seem to generate dramatic malignancy rates in the civil arena afaik. Do helicopters use some special sauce such as the phosphate lubricants seen as an issue in bleed air?
etudiant is online now  
Old 4th May 2021, 02:11
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Peculiar, jet exhaust does not seem to generate dramatic malignancy rates in the civil arena afaik. Do helicopters use some special sauce such as the phosphate lubricants seen as an issue in bleed air?
This is also being discussed on the Rotor site. The discussion there is focused on the winchman being in the open door during rescue operations. Civilian operators typically don't do winching operations

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 4th May 2021 at 08:55. Reason: Wot is this wincing? 🤔
Bksmithca is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 06:06
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NZ
Age: 69
Posts: 195
Civilian operators typically don't do winching operations
Perhaps not in your country but they do winching ops here in NZ.

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 4th May 2021 at 08:54. Reason: Fix quote and spulling
Fark'n'ell is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 06:46
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lost again...
Posts: 643
Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Peculiar, jet exhaust does not seem to generate dramatic malignancy rates in the civil arena afaik. Do helicopters use some special sauce such as the phosphate lubricants seen as an issue in bleed air?

I understand that the focus of this is specific to the Seaking due to the engine exhaust / airflow combination which apparently created a particularly hazardous environment for those working in the door.

They were effectively sitting in the exhaust flow for long periods of time.

The exhaust gas path / airflow on other helicopters will be different (which is not to say that there may not still be a risk) but this particular case is based on Seaking (and evidence that UK MOD were aware of health risks to crew operating in the door).
OvertHawk is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 07:07
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 40
Gratuitous Sea King winching pic showing exhaust location vs cabin door.

TUPE is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 08:08
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 112
Is this essentially the same issue as many 146 crew have suffered from?
dartman2 is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 08:35
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lost again...
Posts: 643
Originally Posted by dartman2 View Post
Is this essentially the same issue as many 146 crew have suffered from?
Not necessarily.

As i understand it the 146 issue is suggested to be from contaminated cabin air from the engine bleeds containing chemicals from the engine oils.

In the seaking case it is from breathing in the exhaust gases.

Whilst they may seem similar (and in fact may be similar) there are potentially significant differences as well. The bleed air gases in the 146 will not have been subject to combustion whereas the Seaking exhaust has - This will change the nature of what is being breathed.

Which is not to downplay the seriousness of either but they are not necessarily the same.

Also, I've not heard of Myeloma being diagnosed or reported as resulting from the 146 issues ( I stand to be corrected if it has been identified as arising from the contaminated air).
OvertHawk is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 09:17
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 19,400
Interesting considering we used to operate and start Jags in a HAS, you would have two in there and as they were designed for single aircraft the jet eflux didn't go out of the blast doors at the back, only one engine was close. Your eyes were streaming as you were breathing it in.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 13:25
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 2,969
A known hazard for many years. The HT leads in the radar Tx/Rx, immediately behind the intake fan, used to get caked with half an inch of eflux and cause corona discharge. You can imagine what that **** would do to your lungs.
tucumseh is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 15:02
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 29
As a fellow myeloma sufferer, I would love to know how they came to this conclusion. I fail to see how a firm/positive link can have been made.

Seer
seer557 is offline  
Old 5th May 2021, 09:28
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,429
Just a point of pedantry, the crewman most at resk would be the Winch OP, not the Winchman.
Oddly, this has raised interest, but a recent (3 days ago) report on the Beeb news page of a Reaper driver suffering PTSD, hasn't prompted comment.
Cornish Jack is offline  
Old 5th May 2021, 09:48
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 192
Originally Posted by dartman2 View Post
Is this essentially the same issue as many 146 crew have suffered from?
The issue with the 146 was the presence of organophosphates in the form of oil mist leaking into the cabin. This lead to acute neurological issues similar to Parkinsons etc. Given the 146 are heli derived engine cores i guess similar issues might be prevalent, but would need some follow up.

The implications of mists / fumes etc on human biology still remain very uncertain, for example myeloma, sarcoma, non hodgkins lymphoma seem to have some similarities interms of having some environmental precursors. Personally i feel the proper and systematic examination of cancer / neurological condition prevelance in aircrew is long overdue. Just look back through PPRuNe and see the number of obituaries that list cancer and it can't all be down to hard living in the mess or on det.

yours dagenham - cancer survivor, lightness added by removing stomach and half of my liver .
dagenham is offline  
Old 5th May 2021, 18:06
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 219
Originally Posted by seer557 View Post
As a fellow myeloma sufferer, I would love to know how they came to this conclusion. I fail to see how a firm/positive link can have been made.

Seer
I’m also a fellow sufferer and I would love to know how widespread Myeloma is amongst the aircrew fraternity and whether there is a link.
RubiC Cube is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.