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Sea Fury Down

Old 30th Apr 2021, 16:31
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
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Going back nearly 60 years I remember large quantities of Bristol Centaurusand Hercules engines piled high in the Marine Salvages yard round the back of Portsmouth airfield. Onc side of the large yard must have been stacked 10 ft high with Packard Merlins too.

A train and cycle ride away at Lasham lay dozens of Sea Fury hulks awaiting the axe. All lost for ever.

Last edited by Archive mole; 30th Apr 2021 at 18:56.
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 19:27
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
I hope in the future vintage aircraft that have been retired due to cost and complexity of engine maintenance can fly once again under electric power.

Yes a bastardisation of history, devoid of the orchestra produced by ICE, but better to see the airframe in flight than not at all no?

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Mjb


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it might be easier to build a new aeroplane that looks like Fury rather than try and fit scores of polluting batteries in and try and re-engineer the MLW to equal the MTOW. Keep it real and run the engine on the ground.
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 20:40
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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First American to win the world aerobatics championship was Charlie Hilliard from Ft Worth TX. He was ultimately killed shortly after landing a Sea Fury at an airshow (Sun-N-Fun Lakeland, FL) in 1996. He was also the first person to complete a free fall baton pass in the infancy of sport parachuting/skydiving.
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 23:48
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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We used Shell 100U oil in Bristol Hercules 672 (1690 BHP) and 734 (1980BHP) engines which are slightly smaller than the 'Taurus and the use of that oil doubled the engine TBO's to 2400 hours. Those engines in my humble opinion are pretty much pilot proof for on takeoff you just shove everything forward and leave it there to get 56.25 inches of manifold pressure, then reduce to METO by reducing the prop RPM to 2500, then to climb by reducing the prop RPM to 2200 and when in cruise reducing the prop RPM to whatever the book says, probably around 1850 RPM below 10,000.' Then and only then do you retard the throttles until they fall into a "cruise detent" (Economical Cruise Boost Bristol called it) and the fuel flow on each engine drops to about 60 imp. gal/hr. The mixture is automatic and the levers in what would be the mixture positions are but "Cut off" and "Run" levers. The fuel consumption on one engine is/was 177 imp gal/hr hence PNR's and CP's had to be calculated. The only engine problem could be caused by a bottom pot going out for the engine wanted to jump out of the airframe so you had to shut the thing down. I have about 40 hours on one engine out of about 5000 hours on Frighteners, and all except two were caused by spark plug failure on a bottom pot. The others were caused by a prop going into auto feather (Auto coarse pitching is the quaint term Bristol used for it) something Bristol said was not possible! If the Taurus engine failed in the Fury it could be mismanagement OR metal fatigue for some of those engines would have been overhauled many many times.
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Old 1st May 2021, 05:57
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Botswana's 5000 hours (including 40 hours single engined!) operating experience on Bristol Frighteners seems pertinent, especially the use of AeroShell 100 U additive oil doubling engine TBO's to 2400 hourss.

Regarding recommended oils for Bristol sleeve valve engines, this ww2.aircraft.net forum link to seems relevant:
https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...-valves.53855/

The AeroShell 100 U additive oil seems to be no longer available but the AeroShell W100 additive oil is available.

The AeroShell Book (page 3.1) explains the AeroShell W Oils:
To overcome the disadvantages of harmful combustion chamber deposits, a non-metallic, i.e. non-ash forming, polymeric additive was developed which was incorporated in blends of selected mineral oil base stocks, to give the range of AeroShell W Oils.
https://www.shell.com/business-custo...dition2021.pdf






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Old 1st May 2021, 11:38
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vegassun View Post
First American to win the world aerobatics championship was Charlie Hilliard from Ft Worth TX. He was ultimately killed shortly after landing a Sea Fury at an airshow (Sun-N-Fun Lakeland, FL) in 1996. He was also the first person to complete a free fall baton pass in the infancy of sport parachuting/skydiving.
I remember that accident. If Charlie had left the roll bar in his airplane, he would likely be with us today. The roll bar had been removed, and when the airplane went on its back Charlie was pinned and was asphyxiated. What a way to go, eh?
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Old 1st May 2021, 12:54
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EvaDestruction View Post
I remember that accident. If Charlie had left the roll bar in his airplane, he would likely be with us today. The roll bar had been removed, and when the airplane went on its back Charlie was pinned and was asphyxiated. What a way to go, eh?
Wasn't that the same situation that happened to Paul Morgan at Sywell, in his FB.11, which had the armour plate seat bulkhead removed and rear seat with extended bubble canopy fitted...?
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Old 1st May 2021, 14:50
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Yup, sadly people never learn by removing them, designed safety devices should always be the priority and left well alone.
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Old 1st May 2021, 19:54
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Over on the Key forum, WyvernFan has compiled this list:

By: Wyvernfan - 28th April 2021 at 22:19

Since 1985 including today I count eight serious incidents with UK Sea Fury’s - five due to engine failure (four = Bristol Centaurus).

A&AEE T.20 VZ345 - cause unknown

Spencer Flack FB.11 G-FURY - engine failure

RNHF FB.11 TF956 - hydraulic failure

RNHF T.20 WG655 - engine failure

Paul Morgan FB.11 - overturned on landing

Navy Wings T.20 VX281 - engine failure

T.20 G-INVN - engine failure (non Centaurus)

Navy Wings T.20 VX281 - engine failure (tbc)
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Old 1st May 2021, 20:39
  #50 (permalink)  
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VZ345 turned over while landing at Boscombe Down I believe.

In 1979 Spencer Flack also acquired the late Ormond Haydon-Baillie's Sea Fury G-AGHB and force landed in Germany while ferrying it home to Elstree - no idea if that was engine related or another cause. I recall seeing it looking very battered on a trailer outside his hangar a couple of months later.

Incidentally, I believe G-INVN's crash last year was the first European-operated R-2800 warbird crash due to engine failure in over 40 years, since the movement started to gather pace. The only other airframe loss was Don Bullock's Invader which most certainly wasn't engine related. That's roughly 10 or 11 Corsairs, 3 P-47s, 3 Bearcats, 2 Tigercats, a Hellcat, 4 Invaders, 2 Sea Furies. Pretty good record!
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Old 1st May 2021, 22:27
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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The VZ345 accident at Boscombe in 1985 occurred during the landing rollout, and as a result of the braking applied the tail lifted and continued until the aircraft nosed over and came to rest inverted. It did have the original pneumatic brakes.
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Old 2nd May 2021, 10:30
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Spencer Flack's FB11 G-FURY went in at Waddington on 2 Aug 81. Engine seized in transit after a long delay before take-off following a display at Humberside. The term '5-bladed airbrake' was mentioned.

As SATCO I was an early attender on the scene [I beat the Crash Ambulance!] and helped Spencer on to a stretcher. I also occupied an adjacent room at RAFH Norton Hall during his stay there for an unrelated reason, and chatted briefly.
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Old 4th May 2021, 14:21
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Spencer Flack's FB11 G-FURY went in at Waddington on 2 Aug 81. Engine seized in transit after a long delay before take-off following a display at Humberside. The term '5-bladed airbrake' was mentioned.

As SATCO I was an early attender on the scene [I beat the Crash Ambulance!] and helped Spencer on to a stretcher. I also occupied an adjacent room at RAFH Norton Hall during his stay there for an unrelated reason, and chatted briefly.
As I recall, the story was that there had been an issue with the engine (a small oil leak, I think) at Humberside and they "fixed" it for the journey home, but the fix didn't last long...
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Old 4th May 2021, 15:07
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by possel View Post
As I recall, the story was that there had been an issue with the engine (a small oil leak, I think) at Humberside and they "fixed" it for the journey home, but the fix didn't last long...
From very dimming memory cells of a post elsewhere on the subject from some years ago (probably Flypast forum before it went belly-up) the speculation was that the 'small leak' was likely a result of Stefan putting G-FURY onto its nose at Stapleford (IIRC) prior to the trip up north (weekend before perhaps?) and the engine finally quit about 6 or 7 hours later...perhaps not to many peoples surprise after Stefan's mishap, given the engine wasn't pulled for thorough inspection after the nose-over.
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Old 5th May 2021, 08:35
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Went to Spencer Flacks house to pick up U100 oil and some parts for boscomes sea fury 80/81 ? G FURY's wreck was in the garden . He showed us the small 'knuckle' drive for a sleeve which he said was cause of the engine failure. Apparently not unknown back in the day after shock loading. Lovely guy and lots of interesting info.
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Old 6th May 2021, 06:28
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
From very dimming memory cells of a post elsewhere on the subject from some years ago (probably Flypast forum before it went belly-up) the speculation was that the 'small leak' was likely a result of Stefan putting G-FURY onto its nose at Stapleford (IIRC) prior to the trip up north (weekend before perhaps?) and the engine finally quit about 6 or 7 hours later...perhaps not to many peoples surprise after Stefan's mishap, given the engine wasn't pulled for thorough inspection after the nose-over.
Saw that as a youngster. Lived locally ( Ongar ) and had cycled to the show
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Old 6th May 2021, 07:19
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Sadly, he didn't wear seat belts in his vintage BRM when racing in Australia. Thrown out and killed. As a previous poster says roll bars etc. are there for your protection......
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Old 6th May 2021, 07:37
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JEM60 View Post
Sadly, he didn't wear seat belts in his vintage BRM when racing in Australia. Thrown out and killed. As a previous poster says roll bars etc. are there for your protection......
The P25 wasn't designed structurally for fitting of any type of racing harness, it would be almost a decade later before GP cars started to be designed with such safety devices in mind.

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