Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

HRH The Duke Of Edinburgh

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

HRH The Duke Of Edinburgh

Old 13th Apr 2021, 11:59
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by Lingo Dan View Post
OmegaV6,

I certainly don't want to "stir the ****", as you so delicately put it, about his participation in field sports, but rather to question why the media have been completely silent about his doing so. I'm sure he spent many more hours shooting and fishing than he ever did flying.
I know it was clearly mentioned in the Telegraph and I'm fairly certain it was also mentioned in the DM. It may also have been mentioned on the BBC website as well. Hardly completely silent! AIUI he strongly supported protection for nature as a whole i.e. the ecosystem rather than any particular animal(s). I believe he hated what he termed as "bunny huggers"
SamYeager is offline  
Old 13th Apr 2021, 11:59
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: positioning
Posts: 1,478
Originally Posted by bobward View Post
I take a simple viewpoint; would I have liked to have hoisted a beer or two with him in the bar. Unquestionably yes I would!
Surely the acid test when determining the character of anyone...
toratoratora is offline  
Old 13th Apr 2021, 12:14
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,315
Originally Posted by SamYeager View Post
I know it was clearly mentioned in the Telegraph and I'm fairly certain it was also mentioned in the DM. It may also have been mentioned on the BBC website as well. Hardly completely silent! AIUI he strongly supported protection for nature as a whole i.e. the ecosystem rather than any particular animal(s). I believe he hated what he termed as "bunny huggers"
The BBC showed an interview where he supported his views on field sports and conservation 'If you don't conserve nature, then you would have nothing to shoot next year'
Davef68 is offline  
Old 13th Apr 2021, 12:46
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,047
Originally Posted by Davef68 View Post
The BBC showed an interview where he supported his views on field sports and conservation 'If you don't conserve nature, then you would have nothing to shoot next year'
That sentiment is the practical base for the most effective conservation program that I know of, the Duck Stamp program in the US.
It is an annual stamp for the duck hunting license whose proceeds are used for habitat conservation and improvement.
It has been a tremendous success, expanding the protected environment not just for ducks, but all manner of other wildlife.
There is nothing comparable elsewhere, most 'bunny huggers' are awol when it comes to paying for the needed wild spaces.
etudiant is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2021, 18:16
  #85 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Devon
Posts: 2,609
On the Ministry of Defence Twitter feed, a short video about HRH and his time at Britannia Royal Naval College, with commentary by the First Sea Lord, Captain BRNC, and the BRNC historian.


WE Branch Fanatic is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 09:02
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 102
.

Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
Both Albert and Philip were modernisers and interested in industry and technology. Comparisons become difficult, though, because Albert arrived on the scene at a time when the monarchy was seen as unpopular and out of touch. Please forgive the following long context, but it matters.

George III had been reasonably well-regarded, but his mental illness meant that Prince George (later Geo IV - for ease, I'll refer to him as that even for when he was still heir to the throne) acted as Regent. George IV was, for want of a better phrase, a bit of a git. He was a spendthrift, selfish and seen by many in the aristocracy as being degenerate. He treated his wife - Queen Caroline - with disdain (ultimately barring her from his coronation in 1821). He ultimately weakened his health through industrial levels of eating and drinking, garnering further contempt from the public because he came to be seen as degenerate by what were then known as the middling sorts and - horror! - even the 'lower orders'.

He also had no children. His heir apparent, Prince Frederick, died without issue in 1827, making William, Duke of Clarence, the next in line.

When George died - to a mixture of indifference and 'thank God he's gone' from the public, he was thus succeeded by William.

William faced two problems - first, he had no legitimate issue. He had ten illegitimate children with the Irish actress Dorothea Jordan and because of his position in the line of succession, it was only when it started to become clear that neither of his two older brothers would have legitimate children that his lack of a possible heir started to become a concern. Dorothea died in 1816, and William managed to become smitten with Princess Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen; she, unfortunately, was prone to miscarriages, and their children died young.

Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, was thus next in line to the throne - but died in 1820. Thus his daughter - Victoria, then aged one, was the next in line. The nation thus faced the prospect of a relatively short reign by an unpopular monarch (George IV), another relatively short reign from his brother (William) and then the crown passing to a child, which would mean a regency.

William came to the throne in 1830. This meant that a new monarch, who hadn't really prepared himself for the role (Charles, for instance, has arguably been prepared/preparing for it for 60+ years; William only really started to worry about it about three years before becoming King) landed in the growing Reform Crisis. He was not alone amongst the upper classes in thinking that electoral reform might be the end of civilisation in Britain; he sided with the Duke of Wellington on the issue rather than Earl Grey and the end result was that his popularity, and that of the monarch, was dented further. When he died in 1837, Victoria - just 18 - became Queen.

Victoria was headstrong and smitten with her first PM, Lord Melbourne. She ended up displaying considerable favouritism towards him, which led to the so-called 'bedchamber crisis' in 1839. This made Victoria unpopular, and MPs were particularly irritated at her interference in politics. This seemed to be a trend, because her uncle - Frederick Augustus - had been seen to interfere in the election of the MP for Weymouth, something which was (not unreasonably) regarded as a scandal which violated the intention of the 1688 Bill of Rights (and subsequent Settlement Acts, etc).

Fortunately for the monarchy - enter Prince Albert, who swept Victoria off her feet. He was an intelligent man and held great influence over his wife, moderating her behaviour - although he was regarded with some suspicion on occasion by MPs - and helping to restore the popularity of the Crown. He made it clear to the Queen that even if she disliked her Prime Minister and preferred the leader of the Opposition (see Gladstone vs Disraeli later in her reign) her duty was not to interfere with the business of parliament. He thus managed to defuse a lot of the problems about monarchical interference in the day-to-day business of government, but we shouldn't underestimate the strength that the monarch possessed - it was only after Albert was dead that wider reform and the spread of democracy (plus Victoria's withdrawal from public life to mourn) meant that the power of the crown diminished. By the time of George V there were relatively few things he could do, influence-wise (informing Lloyd George that British troops were not being put under direct command of a Frenchman being one of them - and given the utter foul up that was the Nivelle offensive, this was no bad thing - but that's a separate and even longer post).

Having the ultimate in top cover, Albert was able to push forward some modern ideas (for the time), and he came to be well-regarded by the working class. Although he was prone to putting things a bit badly, his sympathy was clear - he once said it was the "duty of those who, under the blessings of Divine Providence, enjoy station, wealth, and education" to help those less fortunate. He sought to bring what we'd. now call STEM subjects to university curricula, and did his best to promote British industry.

He did suffer a bizarre drop in popularity when the aggressive Lord Palmerston thought the Crimean War 'a good thing' whereas Albert - more realistic - thought that the army was unprepared for war. Albert was victim of a bizarre Q-Anon type conspiracy for a few months where it was alleged he'd been arrested for treason, but this passed. He probably aided his reputation by dying relatively young, too.

So, what we have in the 1830s is a somewhat febrile position when it came to politics - the wider British public, living up to the stereotype of preferring a nice cup of tea to revolution (this was a thing foreigners did) was still very dubious about monarchy, and those in a position to do something about bringing it to an end (the upper classes in the Commons and the Lords) did worry. Albert thus arrived on the scene and although the above simplifies some of the controversies he faced , he was able to use his position for a mixture of rebuilding the monarchy's popularity, promoting reform of the political system (although it didn't really come until after his death [1860]).

The Duke of Edinburgh faced none of these political problems. Edward VIII, while popular with the public, had been ruthlessly dispatched by parliament and people came to like and admire George VI, first since it was clear that the job had been thrust upon his somewhat reluctant shoulders and he was doing his duty, and then - of course - because of the war. While he was able to apply influence to Churchill, he had nothing like the influence that Albert had - and even Albert had failed to prevent Palmerston going to war in Crimea.

Philip didn't have the freedom of action that Albert had 80+ years earlier; parliament was elected by a very wide franchise and the position of the monarchy was much clearer. The Queen was not going to sack her PM (as William IV had), nor was Philip going to be able to stand up and push the government down a reforming path as Albert had - the crown didn't and doesn't have the same sort of leeway. Sacking a PM is the 'nuclear option' if the PM goes bonkers or looks like passing an enabling law, or attempting to avoid a General Election to turn the UK into a dictatorship; as we know, the royals have to tread carefully, even when it comes to saying 'that is an absolutely hideous-looking building' or commenting on organic farming.

The context is, therefore, very different and making a comparison (that Albert was more significant) is not at all straightforward, since Albert and Philip operated under different ROE (for want of a better phrase). Philip could not - rightly, IMO - act as Albert had. Albert operated in an era where the majority of the nation had absolutely no say in the way the nation was run and royal influence was strong enough to effectively direct policy (and the Commons could be over-ruled by the Lords); Philip operated at a time when influence, advice and warning - and the occasional spectacular speech - are pretty much the limit of exploitation for a working royal.

Albert had to work on resetting the monarchy - Philip did not. Albert operated in an era where he could wield very direct influence (albeit he had to do so carefully) - Philip did not have anywhere near the same degree of direct influence - also, his wife came to be highly regarded (when a young Princess) by Churchill, Attlee and Eden. Macmillan was on record as saying what a great support HMQ was to her Prime Ministers - she was the only person they could talk to safe in the knowledge she never leaked and offered sage advice. This, in turn, meant that Philip didn't have to prevent his wife from interfering and attempting to run the government of the day, whereas Albert did.

Arguably, Philip's promotion of conservation - jokes about shooting pandas aside - has had a longer lasting influence than Albert; both men were avid promoters of science and technology. The Duke of Edinburgh's Award scheme is also far more wide-reaching in its manner of operation than anything Albert did. Philip had to operate largely behind the scenes, whereas Albert could - see his remarks upon helping the 'lower orders' - make what would now be seen as a speech too far.

I would thus respectfully argue that - to quote a colleague - comparing Albert and Philip is a bit like 'comparing apples and penguins'. There are, of course, parallels, but the context in which the two operated was very different. Both were significant figures and trying to rank them doesn't really work.

Again, my apologies for the length of this post which is thanks to the vaccine having the interesting side effect not - as it's supposed to - make me tired, but making me feel as though I've consumed three cans of Monster energy drink...

Quick correction- George 1V had a daughter with his wife Caroline. Princess Charlotte was at the time the most popular member of the royal family, and everyone looked forward to the day she would inherit the throne. She married and died shortly after giving birth to a stillborn son. The country went into deep mourning. Her widowed husband later went on to be king of the Belgians and uncle to Charlotte’s cousin Victoria
euromanxdude is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 12:29
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by WE Branch Fanatic View Post
The Naval Career of HRH Prince Phillip The Duke of Edinburgh - Royal Navy

The Royal Navy has been in the blood of the Duke of Edinburgh from his earliest days, through service in the Mediterranean and Pacific during World War 2, to post-war command and honorary roles with the Fleet and Royal Marines up to his retirement from public duties.

Aged just 18 months, he was evacuated with his family in cruiser HMS Calypso when the Greek royal family was forced to abdicate amid revolution in the country.

The prince’s Royal Navy career began aged 17 when he attended Britannia Royal Naval College in Dartmouth, Devon, the spiritual home of the officer corps. Two months later he famously escorted a then 13-year-old Princess Elizabeth and her younger sister Princess Margaret when their parents, King George VI and Queen Elizabeth visited Dartmouth.

The college was in the middle of a chicken-pox and mumps epidemic and it was necessary to keep the princesses away from the risk of infection.

Prince Philip was excused from training and given the job of hosting the princesses, which included a game of croquet in the Captain’s garden.

While this was not the first time Philip and Elizabeth had met, popular consensus is that this was the first time that the princess had ‘noticed’ the prince.

Prince Philip passed out of Dartmouth at the beginning of 1940 after eight months’ training. He enjoyed his time at the college – and excelled there, receiving the King’s Dirk and the Eardley Howard Crocket prize for best Cadet of his entry.

From Dartmouth, the young midshipman was appointed to veteran battleship HMS Ramillies in the Indian Ocean, escorting troops from Australia to Egypt, before joining cruisers HMS Kent and Shropshire in the Asia-Pacific region.

At the end of 1940 he was appointed to the battleship HMS Valiant in the Mediterranean which saw action off North Africa but in particular in the victory over the Italian Fleet at Cape Matapan in March 1941.

Prince Philip was Mentioned in Despatches for “bravery and enterprise” in controlling the battleship’s searchlights in the night action which “greatly contributed to the devastating results achieved” by the guns.

At the beginning of 1942 he joined destroyer HMS Wallace and spent most of the year escorting coastal convoys off the east coast of the UK before the ship dispatched to the Mediterranean to support the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, where she helped cover the Canadian landings and was damaged during air raids.

Contemporary reports from his commanding officers praise Prince Philip’s practical seamanship skills, high intellect, good judgement, strong character, zeal, and great charm. He was described as an “officer of unusual promise” and it was predicted he would “make his mark in the Service”.

His next seagoing appointment was as First Lieutenant – second in command – of new destroyer HMS Whelp which sailed to the Far East for the final year of the war with Japan as part of the escort for the capital ships.

Aboard Whelp, Prince Philip was present in Tokyo Bay in September 1945 for the formal Japanese surrender – the last act of World War 2. The destroyer finally returned to the UK in January 1946 having helped with the repatriation of Allied servicemen.

He spent the next 3½ years ashore at various Naval establishments helping to train new sailors joining from civvy street and petty officers as well as studies at the Naval Staff College in Greenwich – interspersed with his marriage to Princess Elizabeth in November 1947.

In October 1949, Prince Philip returned to sea as First Lieutenant of destroyer HMS Chequers in the Mediterranean and the royal couple lived in Malta between 1949 and 1951.

After being promoted to Lieutenant Commander in July 1950, Prince Philip was given his first sea-going command, 11 years after joining the Royal Navy.

He commanded anti-submarine frigate HMS Magpie from September 1950 until July 1951, taking her to ports around the Mediterranean including Izmir, Livorno, Tripoli, Athens (Princess Elizabeth joined the ship for the passage through the Corinth Canal), Monaco, and Gibraltar.

The Duke of Edinburgh’s active naval career ended as a commander in January 1953, after almost 14 years.

He was promoted Honorary Admiral of the Fleet and added the title of Captain General of the Royal Marines in June of the same year – a position he held until December 2017.

Other titles bestowed upon him during the period of transition from Service to royal life included Admiral of the Sea Cadet Corps, Colonel-in-Chief of the Army Cadet Force and Air Commodore-in-Chief of the Air Training Corps.

Despite his retirement from active service, Prince Philp remained both interested and involved in the Naval Service through official visits, patronage of, and association with, naval charities and clubs, time spent in the Royal Yacht Britannia and in instances where his overseas visits were escorted by Royal Navy ships.

His long-standing connection with the Senior Service was recognised in June 2011 when The Queen conferred the title and office of Lord High Admiral to him upon his 90th birthday.

For more than eight decades, Prince Philip’s generous spirit and genuine understanding of the Royal Navy, its values, and traditions have been an asset to the Service.

So it was fitting that his final public engagement in August 2017 to review a parade by Royal Marines at Buckingham Palace.
Put in a contemporary context, this ex-crab would suggest that he was born in Corfu, but he was made in the Royal Navy.
DuncanDoenitz is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 13:13
  #88 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Devon
Posts: 2,609
Originally Posted by DuncanDoenitz View Post
Put in a contemporary context, this ex-crab would suggest that he was born in Corfu, but he was made in the Royal Navy.
Nice.

On which note: Sailors and Royal Marines train for HRN The Duke of Edinburgh's funeral

Sailors and Royal Marines have joined counterparts from the other services in rehearsals for the funeral of His Royal Highness The Duke of Edinburgh.

They mustered on Saturday at HMS Collingwood in Fareham and have now moved to the Army Training Centre Pirbright to finalise preparations for Saturday’s funeral.

The funeral will take place at St George’s Chapel, Windsor, preceded by a ceremonial procession inside the grounds of Windsor Castle.

The Duke’s coffin will be covered with his personal standard and will bear his naval cap and sword. Positioned in the quadrangle at Windsor Castle will be representative detachments from His Royal Highness’s special military relationships.

The sailors and Royal Marines have been drawn from selected establishments and units to maintain Covid-secure bubbles. They are Charlie Company of Taunton-based 40 Commando, HMNB Portsmouth, RNAS Yeovilton and Devonport-based HMS Magpie – a ship with a special connection to the Duke.

The previous HMS Magpie, a frigate, was the only vessel the Duke of Edinburgh commanded. He completed his naval career in 1953, later holding the titles of Honorary Admiral of the Fleet and Captain General of the Royal Marines.
WE Branch Fanatic is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 16:11
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: cornwall UK
Age: 77
Posts: 236
Life style

Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
I, for one, wouldn’t want to swap my own relatively quiet and uncomplicated life for the one he had.
Good point.

Here's a thought. Once or twice a year I have to dress up in best bib and tucker, clean shoes, and arrive on time for a funeral or other formal occasion, drink a glass of plonk, eat rubber chicken, smile and chat to people with whom I have little in common. The Duke did that two or three hundred times a year to support the Queen. Now that's service!
Boslandew is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 17:08
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: A place in the sun
Age: 79
Posts: 1,019
Boslandew, I whole heartedly agree!
Bergerie1 is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 17:41
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 19,707
Looks like he is going to have a final runout on a Landrover he helped design.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9475099/Full-details-Prince-Philips-funeral-released.html

NutLoose is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 18:26
  #92 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 13,232
Originally Posted by Boslandew View Post
Good point.

Here's a thought. Once or twice a year I have to dress up in best bib and tucker, clean shoes, and arrive on time for a funeral or other formal occasion, drink a glass of plonk, eat rubber chicken, smile and chat to people with whom I have little in common. The Duke did that two or three hundred times a year to support the Queen. Now that's service!
Precisely the sort of thing I was thinking about. No slobbing about unshaven in his jimjams until lunchtime for HRH, or getting filthy fixing up an old motorbike at his leisure. I have lots of other little luxuries like those.
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 21:55
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
He designed more in one day than the editorial staff of the Fail have done in their entire lives.
Cat Techie is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 22:56
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 19,707
I do like the fact he kept coming back to it and tinkering to get it just right.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 00:12
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Swindonshire
Posts: 1,969
Originally Posted by euromanxdude View Post
Quick correction- George 1V had a daughter with his wife Caroline. Princess Charlotte was at the time the most popular member of the royal family, and everyone looked forward to the day she would inherit the throne. She married and died shortly after giving birth to a stillborn son. The country went into deep mourning. Her widowed husband later went on to be king of the Belgians and uncle to Charlotte’s cousin Victoria
You're quite correct, of course - I meant that when he became King in 1820 he had no surviving children, but in a bid to make the post a little shorter than it turned out failed to make that qualifier clear.
Archimedes is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 09:58
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,863
Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
I'm curious to understand the reason for the large bulge on the engine cowling? I've not noticed it on other Turbulents, nor on this aircraft since its rebuild.




spekesoftly is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 10:01
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rural England, thank God.
Posts: 622
Originally Posted by spekesoftly View Post
I'm curious to understand the reason for the large bulge on the engine cowling? I've not noticed it on other Turbulents, nor on this aircraft since its rebuild.
DAS...............
skua is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 10:09
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Just behind the back of beyond....
Posts: 4,101
Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
No argument, I'm no authority on history, so please help me learn more.
My vague sense of Albert is Crystal Palace and promoting Industrial and technical progress. England dominated the world in the decades after his death.
By contrast, Prince Philip to me is a nice guy trying his best to keep things functioning, no push for future developments.
England has lost tremendous ground during his time as consort, not his fault, but he never spoke in praise of new technology afaik.
While Britain may not have enjoyed the meteoric progress under the present Queen that it did under Victoria, your sense of Philip seems to be awry. He was fiercely interested in science, technology, manufacturing, computers, and the environment, and within the constraints of his position pushed hard in all these areas. If there was a STEM advocate within the family - he was it!
Jackonicko is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 10:24
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 19,707
Originally Posted by spekesoftly View Post
I'm curious to understand the reason for the large bulge on the engine cowling? I've not noticed it on other Turbulents, nor on this aircraft since its rebuild.

Possibly clearance for the Distributor or carb intake?

see

http://www.oy-reg.dk/billeder/l12842.jpg

https://www.alamy.com/d31-druine-tur...224462386.html

NutLoose is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 10:24
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: U.K.
Posts: 85
What a great man .. I am not sure I fully appreciated that until I reflected on his fabulous and distinguished life ..

Rest in Peace Sir ..

From a fellow graduate of BRNC ..

Iron Duke is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.