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RAF C-130J's to be retired early?

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RAF C-130J's to be retired early?

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Old 14th May 2023, 16:49
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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What is the average availability rate of the C130J vs the A400 ? As an aside the RCAF has found that the C17 has had the highest availability rate of any turbine transport aircraft in the history of the RCAF.
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Old 15th May 2023, 14:02
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As the Threadstarter thought I might add a little. Something that many have already alluded to, is pointed out in an article in today's Daily Express, beginning to mirror other decisions made in the past. Don't seem to learn from past mistakes, especially when decisions are made to save money but then called something other, damn Treasury, "Sir Humphreys" and "kowtowing" Service bigwigs playing the "Whitehall game". Where is Leadership when so obviously needed?
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Old 15th May 2023, 14:44
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[QUOTE=esscee;11435109]As the Threadstarter thought I might add a little. Something that many have already alluded to, is pointed out in an article in today's Daily Express, beginning to mirror other decisions made in the past. Don't seem to learn from past mistakes, especially when decisions are made to save money but then called something other, damn Treasury, "Sir Humphreys" and "kowtowing" Service bigwigs playing the "Whitehall game". Where is Leadership when so obviously needed?[/QUOTE


What??

.
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Old 15th May 2023, 15:15
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" Where is Leadership when so obviously needed"

Long gone - it's been cut on cut since 1945
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Old 15th May 2023, 16:19
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The Secretary of State for Defence has just stated, in a reply to a Labour member condemning the C-130J fleet retirement and bigging up the Atlas capability, that when the Herc is retired it will leave an Air Lift fleet that is “the biggest in 50 years!”

Surely this is wrong? 50 years ago, in 1973, the RAF had an airlift fleet of 63 Hercules, 16 Andovers, 10 Belfasts, 22 Britannias, 13 VC10’s and 5 Comets.
That’s 127 airlift aircraft, compared to a July 2023 total of 44, and that is a generous 44 as not all 14 Voyagers are in use, and they are also the RAF’s only AAR asset, compared to 30 pure AAR Victors in 1973.

Ben Wallace has just misled Parliament!

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Old 15th May 2023, 16:35
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He probably means physical size of the aircraft..............
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Old 15th May 2023, 16:41
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
He probably means physical size of the aircraft..............
Nope, I watched him live and saw his lips move and heard exactly what he said.
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Old 15th May 2023, 17:19
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pr00ne do you really think his brain and lips were connected?
It must be capacity not quantity* ... clearly we will never need them in more than one place.

*unless he is refering to four C-130Js

Why does no MP ever ask the obvious question: 'Why does virtually every other major A400M operator also have a number of smaller aircraft'

Wallace:
The simple reality is the A400 outperforms it (the Hercules), its availability was extremely successful, the Hercules only accounts for 10% of the fleet and the overall fleet for lift is now the biggest it has been for 50 years.
Cartlidge:
“The largest number of evacuees carried out of Sudan by the Hercules was 143. The largest number in a A400 I can confirm was around 100 more than that.”
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Old 15th May 2023, 17:31
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
The Secretary of State for Defence has just stated, in a reply to a Labour member condemning the C-130J fleet retirement and bigging up the Atlas capability, that when the Herc is retired it will leave an Air Lift fleet that is “the biggest in 50 years!”

Surely this is wrong? 50 years ago, in 1973, the RAF had an airlift fleet of 63 Hercules, 16 Andovers, 10 Belfasts, 22 Britannias, 13 VC10’s and 5 Comets.
That’s 127 airlift aircraft, compared to a July 2023 total of 44, and that is a generous 44 as not all 14 Voyagers are in use, and they are also the RAF’s only AAR asset, compared to 30 pure AAR Victors in 1973.

Ben Wallace has just misled Parliament!
Absolutely correct. I just watched this and Ben Wallace clearly misled Parliament as his statement is factually incorrect. Of course one must assume that as an MP and ex-army officer, his integrity is beyond question, so I look forward to him apologizing for conveying incorrect information to the house and setting the record straight without delay...
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Old 15th May 2023, 17:33
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Special ops wise, is it not equatable in these times to have also perhaps a more expendable aircraft, god forbid a raid, thinking alike of Entebbe , Operation_Mikado..

no ok, can use a voyager. brill
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Old 15th May 2023, 19:05
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Whistling Wheelbarrows ?

...
Surely this is wrong? 50 years ago, in 1973, the RAF had an airlift fleet of 63 Hercules, 16 Andovers, 10 Belfasts, 22 Britannias, 13 VC10’s and 5 Comets.
Is it possible the 'onnerable Gent may have forgotten a few squadrons of Whistling T**ts ? ... soz ... I meant ... Wheelbarrows.

Ben Wallace has just misled Parliament !
That's most of his job description innit ? ... He's prolly including 67 Chinny's and a load of Marlins .
...

LFH
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Old 15th May 2023, 19:35
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Originally Posted by Lordflasheart
...


Is it possible the 'onnerable Gent may have forgotten a few squadrons of Whistling T**ts ? ... soz ... I meant ... Wheelbarrows.



That's most of his job description innit ? ... He's prolly including 67 Chinny's and a load of Marlins .
...

LFH
Nope, Argosy withdrawn as transport by 1971, save a few at Akrotiri, but Benson wing had gone by the end of 71.
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Old 15th May 2023, 20:01
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Then came Roy Mason and the end of the Andover C, Belfast, Britannia and Comet and the withdrawal of 13 Alberts. Justification was no out of NATO area ops but still more than 44 FW aircraft.
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Old 15th May 2023, 20:53
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Originally Posted by SLXOwft
Then came Roy Mason and the end of the Andover C, Belfast, Britannia and Comet and the withdrawal of 13 Alberts. Justification was no out of NATO area ops but still more than 44 FW aircraft.
No actual Hercules or VC10’s were withdrawn. The original reduction was planned to be down to 48 Hercules and 9 VC10’s but with retention of the 10 Belfasts. That was changed to NO Belfasts but retention in frontline service of all Hercules and VC10’s.
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Old 15th May 2023, 22:24
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Whilst it's true that, in the end, no Hercs or VC 10s were withdrawn, the AE figures for both were reduced, with all that that meant for crew numbers, spares procurement and so forth. The VC 10 went from 13 to 11 as I recall, and I simply can't remember the number for the Herc fleet at this distance. (Having been involved at Upavon in some early work for MOD on fleet sizes against given tasks, the initial announcement to retain the Belfast came as a surprise, as all the guidance then had pointed towards a Herc and VC 10 fleet on numerical grounds.)
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Old 15th May 2023, 23:35
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
Nope, Argosy withdrawn as transport by 1971, save a few at Akrotiri, but Benson wing had gone by the end of 71.
But still flying as a flight checker until about '78..
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Old 16th May 2023, 16:47
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ZH865 lunchtime EGSC

This morning I heard it was coming into my neck of the woods (Marshalls) one final time, so tracked it on ADSB when it flew through the Mach Loop / Valleys and head this way passing over roundabout central (MK lol) and made my merry way to the airport to catch it. So here are my photos from lunchtime taken from Coldhams Lane side.







cheers

Last edited by chopper2004; 16th May 2023 at 21:30.
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Old 19th May 2023, 20:54
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Retiring RAF's Hercules will leave initial capability gap, new air chief says

Another No S**t Sherlock announcement.

​​​​​​​https://www.forces.net/technology/ai...hief-air-staff
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Old 20th May 2023, 12:04
  #179 (permalink)  

 
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pr00ne
Argosy withdrawn as transport by 1971, save a few at Akrotiri, but Benson wing had gone by the end of 71]
Not according to Wiki, which says "56 aircraft were produced for the RAF under the designation Argosy C Mk 1 (C.1), it served in a total of six squadrons; three based in the UK and one each in Aden, Cyprus, and the Far East. The RAF withdrew the Argosy from transport missions during 1975 as an economic measure."
If true, that confirms that the fleet of fifty years ago included the Armlong Woolworth Allsoggy, as the Lyneham comic strip would have it.

airsound
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Old 21st May 2023, 08:45
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Originally Posted by airsound
pr00ne

Not according to Wiki, which says "56 aircraft were produced for the RAF under the designation Argosy C Mk 1 (C.1), it served in a total of six squadrons; three based in the UK and one each in Aden, Cyprus, and the Far East. The RAF withdrew the Argosy from transport missions during 1975 as an economic measure."
If true, that confirms that the fleet of fifty years ago included the Armlong Woolworth Allsoggy, as the Lyneham comic strip would have it.

airsound
Not true. Wiki is wrong. By 1975 the Argosy was long gone as a transport aircraft with the exception of a small flight on 70 Squadron (largely Hercules equipped) that was indeed withdrawn in 1975 when 70 returned to the UK.
The 5, not 6 Argosy transport squadrons (there were 2 in the UK, not 3) were disbanded in 1967 (215 Sqn Singapore) 1968 (105 Sqn Bahrain) 1970 (267 Sqn Benson) and 1971 (114 Sqn Benson.

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