RAF C-130J's to be retired early?

[airsound]

Thanks, pr00ne, for that correction! I was a Hastings, Andover and Belfast man meself, so wasn't fully up with the Allsoggy. But anyway, as you obviously have better info than Wiki does, will you send them in a correction? If you haven't done it before, it's quite simple, and they're quite likely to accept your stuff.

airsound

[pr00ne]

Originally Posted by airsound

Thanks, pr00ne, for that correction! I was a Hastings, Andover and Belfast man meself, so wasn't fully up with the Allsoggy. But anyway, as you obviously have better info than Wiki does, will you send them in a correction? If you haven't done it before, it's quite simple, and they're quite likely to accept your stuff.

airsound

Good idea, I will do so.

[scroggs]

Originally Posted by ICM

Whilst it's true that, in the end, no Hercs or VC 10s were withdrawn, the AE figures for both were reduced, with all that that meant for crew numbers, spares procurement and so forth. The VC 10 went from 13 to 11 as I recall, and I simply can't remember the number for the Herc fleet at this distance. (Having been involved at Upavon in some early work for MOD on fleet sizes against given tasks, the initial announcement to retain the Belfast came as a surprise, as all the guidance then had pointed towards a Herc and VC 10 fleet on numerical grounds.)

The Herc fleet was reduced to 48 aircraft, with the rest as 'in use reserves'. Two squadrons, 48 and 36, were stood down. I think at the time of the decision 62 C Mk1s remained on the books of the 66 purchased.

[pr00ne]

Originally Posted by scroggs

The Herc fleet was reduced to 48 aircraft, with the rest as 'in use reserves'. Two squadrons, 48 and 36, were stood down. I think at the time of the decision 62 C Mk1s remained on the books of the 66 purchased.

None were actually retired with all 62 being split between A and B Line Servicing Squadrons plus the W2 of the MRF at Farnborough.
The original plan was certainly to go to 48 but also to retain 53 Squadrons Belfasts. When the decision to disband 53 and retire the Belfast was made the Hercules reduction was dropped, along with the plan to retire 3 or 4 of 10 Squadrons VC10’s.

[Consulman]

I may be mistaken but I seem to recall that 115 Sqn had a small number of Argosy' until the late 70's

[pr00ne]

Originally Posted by Consulman

I may be mistaken but I seem to recall that 115 Sqn had a small number of Argosy' until the late 70's

Not mistaken at all, they had 9 E1’s in the Airfield Calibration role until replaced by Andovers in 1977.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by pr00ne

Not mistaken at all, they had 9 E1’s in the Airfield Calibration role until replaced by Andovers in 1977.

I remember one of them in about '76 or '77 calibrating the first ever digital D/F to be installed at an MOD airfield replacing the CADF at Farnborough; they were still passing us class 'A' bearings from overhead Wyton.

[NutLoose]

So losing the Herc creates a SF capability gap and 15 nations, 11 of which being NATO countries, want to buy them.

https://www.forces.net/technology/ai...hief-air-staff

[melmothtw]

I found a lot of what was said about 'the superior capability' of the A400M at the recent Defence Select Committee hearing to be disingenuous. They kept making the point, ad nauseum, that the A400M is bigger and therefore it must be better, highlighting the operation in Sudan.

"Well, I think actually it's not a loss of capability, it's a gain of capability, because the Secretary of State very clearly believes this is a next generation aircraft ahead of the Hercules. On at that crucial operation in Sudan, the maximum number of people that was carried out by the Hercules was 143, [while] the maximum from the A400 was 251. That is incredibly important." - Minister for Defence Procurement James Cartlidge

Begs the question why we didn't buy a shed load more C-17s while the line was still open, if the number of passengers it can carry is the absolute standard by which we're measuring our air mobility capability.

[BEagle]

50 years ago, in 1973, the RAF had an airlift fleet of 63 Hercules, 16 Andovers, 10 Belfasts, 22 Britannias, 13 VC10s and 5 Comets.

Plus the Devons and a few remaining Bassets?

Only 5 years earlier, the last RAF Ansons were retired!

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by BEagle

Plus the Devons and a few remaining Bassets?

Only 5 years earlier, the last RAF Ansons were retired!

You forgot the Pembrokes; don't know when they were retired but they survived the move from Bovingdon to Northolt; I think the last Valleta had already gone by '68.

[BEagle]

The last Valetta to operate in RAF service was VX573, which made its last flight in June 1969.

Ah yes. Sorry, I forgot the Pembrokes!

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

The 2 Pembrokes at RAF Northolt (32 Sqn?) were retained - so legend had it - because AOCs could arrive for their AOCs' Inspections and deplane correctly attired with their hat on, the door being considerably higher than that of 207 Sqn's Devons.

[sycamore]

I flew as co-pilot in Valetta WJ491,AAEE Transport Flight in Nov,`71,Think it went to Gatow in `72..
Think the B170 Wayfarer/Freighter was retired in `68..

[NutLoose]

Originally Posted by pr00ne

Surely this is wrong? 50 years ago, in 1973, the RAF had an airlift fleet of 63 Hercules, 16 Andovers, 10 Belfasts, 22 Britannias, 13 VC10’s and 5 Comets.
That’s 127 airlift aircraft, compared to a July 2023 total of 44, and that is a generous 44 as not all 14 Voyagers are in use, and they are also the RAF’s only AAR asset, compared to 30 pure AAR Victors in 1973.

Ben Wallace has just misled Parliament!

Is he talking pax or cargo lift capacity? If he is it might be correct.


You have missed Hastings off that list, Retired: 1977 (RAF), there was one visiting at St Athan at home in 76, Pembrokes were still in use with 60 Sqn in RAFG when I was there too.
No.60 Squadron was still operating seven in 1987 but after a total of 35 years service they were finally withdrawn in 1988.

As for the RAF website, absolutely dreadful 60 Sqn history accuracy.

https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisat...s/60-squadron/

[Timelord]

Hastings were in use as NBS (V Bomber) Nav trainers long after they ceased to be part of the transport fleet, although ISTR that they could still transport the occasional sports team here and there as well as playing a starring role in the Cod War.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by pr00ne

not all 14 Voyagers are in use,

If you're going to include the Voyagers, you should also include the two Envoys and the two A321s.
Come to think of it, the Jetstream T1 was in RAF service from about 1975 to 2003; I flew in one in 1979 and it was fitted with (I think) 12 seats.

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/gabriel64869839/...HhlFHGKbTPQr_A

Regarding A400M ability to airdrop boats, which has come to be totemic in ability to support "special forces" (i'm probably more concerned about the Submarine Parachute Assistance Group...), process to procure an initial 25 Large Boat Air Drop platforms began last year.…

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...775028227.html
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[NutLoose]

Wrong thread Orac??

[Commando Cody]

Maybe someone can advise me about this. The RAF's existing 22 A400Ms are to fill an existing need, but were not specifically to replace the RAF's C-130J fleet. The intention was to order an addition quantity to replace the C-130Js which were to be retired. The retirement was moved up and some quarters said the new schedule was premature. Now, with the various Defense reviews, although the additional AA400Ms were planned to be ordered, they never actually were and now in fact will not be, and it is too late to stop the retirement of the C-130Js, which 15 nations would like to buy. Is this accurate?

Fun fact: one of the ex-RAF C-130Js now flies with the Blue Angels.