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Sweden builds up defences - 40% increase in spend

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Sweden builds up defences - 40% increase in spend

Old 22nd Oct 2020, 21:18
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beamr View Post
For the first part of your statement: why isn't Russian Karelia then annexed to Finland, as there is a Finnish population that was strongly terrorised by soviet authorities after the area was occupied and joined to USSR in the aftermaths of WW2? Russians cleansed the area by ethnic background during Stalins era. Should a line drawn on map almost a century ago force them to live under dictatorship (yes, Putins Russia)?
Should Poland be forced to give up the territory in the west in acquired from Germany ? Should German reacquire Gdansk / Kallinigrad ? Republic of Ireland get Northern Ireland ?

As what comes to the second part regarding Swedish defence budget uplifts I believe you are not aware of the figures. The proposed uplift of 40% is in essence 3 billion USD in the time frame of five years (2021-2025). That is 0,57% of Swedish GDP (GDP in Sweden 2019 was 536 billion USD). As the swedish military budget has been approx 1,1% of GDP, this increment doesn't take it even to the NATO proposal of 2%. The Swedish government deficit has been in between -1,5% to 1,4% for the past decade and currently Swedish government debt is only 40% of GDP. All this in essence means that the economy is very well capable of handling that military spenditure uplift and they don't even have to think of it twice from budget perspective.

For comparison we can look at a couple of other countries with their figures
Finland: Military budget 3,2 Billion USD (1,3% of GDP), and rising with the upcoming FJ investement. Government debt 59,4% of GDP. Deficit 0,7%.
Norway: Military budget 6,6 Billion USD (1,7% of GDP), Government Debt 40,8% of GDP, Deficit 6,4%
Denmark: Military budget 4,0 Billion USD (1,3% of GDP), Government debt 33,2% of GDP, Deficit 3,7%
UK: Military budget 46 Billion USD (2,1% of GDP), Government Debt 85,4% of GDP, Deficit 2,7%
Germany: Military budget 50 Billion USD (1,3% of GDP), Government debt 59,8% of GDP, Deficit 7,25%

To make it short, Sweden has made cuts to defence budgets in the past and now they are just ramping up to the same level as others around them and with a rather healthy economy.
UK Govt debt is now well in excess of GDP so should military spending be decimated to get back to that notional figure ? Sweden has little danger of invasion but it suits those who will make money from it to promote that idea.

Still waiting for what anybody would get by invading Sweden, aside from a bloody big headache.

In the age of drone warfare on land, sea and air the invasion of countries is old.
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 02:01
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidni.../#48a14dea67ba

Nothing too terribly new except the last sentence. It comes from a retired Swedish General, but it’s likely still accurate. It would seem to indicate Sweden hopes to hold out, hoping for external assistance rather than expecting to drive the invader back themselves.
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 04:51
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Should Poland be forced to give up the territory in the west in acquired from Germany ? Should German reacquire Gdansk / Kallinigrad ? Republic of Ireland get Northern Ireland ?
My point exactly. What makes crimean so special then?
Originally Posted by racedo View Post
UK Govt debt is now well in excess of GDP so should military spending be decimated to get back to that notional figure ? Sweden has little danger of invasion but it suits those who will make money from it to promote that idea.

Still waiting for what anybody would get by invading Sweden, aside from a bloody big headache.

In the age of drone warfare on land, sea and air the invasion of countries is old.
What are the odds of UK being invaded? Why are they throwing money out the window then?
Or scaling up a bit, the US? Australia? New Zealand?
or, Russia? Who is threatening Russia so that it has to invest in new military bases, troops and armament in the Baltic area?

Last edited by Beamr; 23rd Oct 2020 at 05:33.
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 14:21
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Beamr,

I think it would be misplaced to regard Russia as a country which has to feel honestly threatened before it will behave in a Belligerent manner, certainly, and definitely initially, through what they call 'soft power'.

FB
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 14:34
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Finningley Boy View Post
Beamr,

I think it would be misplaced to regard Russia as a country which has to feel honestly threatened before it will behave in a Belligerent manner, certainly, and definitely initially, through what they call 'soft power'.

FB
I agree. My question is more of why is it okay for every other country to spend more to defence but all of the sudden it is not ok when it comes to Sweden.
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 14:57
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Finningley Boy View Post
Although Sweden has protected its economy far more valiantly than any other country, apart from the likes of New Zealand and South Korea, and with a radically different approach compared with the other two. Given their highly competent way of balancing social costs with commercial and national productivity, that they can find 40% (for us it would be about £20,000,000,000 increase per annum or not far short) additional spending on defence really has to make you wonder about our own constant can't do saga of defence reviews, more and more wrapped up with one or more allied departments or ministries. Reviews which always arrive at a predicted outcome, leaner and meaner. I also have to wonder if the traditionally liberal swedes have their Chiefs of Staff putting out public feelers about braided hair, dreadlocks, pony tails and gender neutral terminology? Perhaps we're the new Sweden, or Netherlands, and they are the new UK? In terms of by what store each places priority on social inclusion and serious defence concerns.

FB
Finningley Boy,

Perhaps a more relevant approach is that Sweden HAS gone through its own 'constant can't do sage of defence reviews' and it is precisely because of these defence reviews and cuts that the Swedes find themselves in such a perilous position.

And don't forget that we are talking figures of around £3b here, and that Boris gave UK defence an additional £2b last year.

So I think you are painting a wrongly nuanced picture.
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Old 25th Oct 2020, 08:32
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fonsini View Post
It would be more interesting to know why the Swedes are ramping up so significantly - makes me wonder if they have any specific intel.

On a side note I worked there for a while for an unnamed government department back in the 90s. Stockholm, Ludvika, and Gothenburg - I even learned some Swedish. They were just the nicest people and itís a beautiful country (apart from the travesty of the Systembolaget - spelling?) - I really didnít want to leave.
Growing tensions with Russia apparently is the reason...https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...h-russia-grows
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