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The US has built and flown a prototype Next Gen fighter...

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The US has built and flown a prototype Next Gen fighter...

Old 22nd Sep 2020, 15:21
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Now on Flight Global:-

USAF secretly builds and flies next-generation fighter demonstrator
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 23:56
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NEW US FIGHTER/ TEMPEST

What do we make of the Defense News report that the USAF/? has designed, built and test flown a secret prototype fighter in just a year? And what does this mean for our Tempest Team? https://www.defensenews.com/breaking...e-fighter-jet/
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 00:34
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The US has built and flown a prototype Next Gen fighter...

If they used a 'donor' platform for major components then they could build something fairly rapidly and fly it within the time scales. I imagine It doesn't mean anything to Tempest as that's a UK technology project. The new Euro jet venture however..
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 08:11
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What has flown seems to be a "demonstrator" not a "prototype".
Based on the movements of senior DOD officials, CRS assesses the first flight came on or about August 21, 2020. Some news sources have referred to this event as the first flight of a new fighter, and speculated as to the design and characteristics of such a fighter. However, it is notable that the aircraft was described as a “full-scale flight demonstrator,” not a “prototype.” The former phrase is used to describe an aircraft that is showing off some form of technology and is different from “prototype,” which indicates a more production-representative system.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/IF11659.pdf
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 20:34
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So why is the government seemingly pushing the Tempest project - in public
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 23:59
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Originally Posted by Royalistflyer View Post
So why is the government seemingly pushing the Tempest project - in public
The House of Commons Library produced a comprehensive overview of the MOD’s Combat Air Strategy which should explain things for you. Essentially the Tempest initiative is designed to provide a UK-led option at a major investment decision in 2025. It doesn’t say what the other options are likely to be, but I’d imagine that a junior partner role in either SCAF or NGAD would be investigated. I’ve no idea whether either is realistically available, but the investment in Tempest would maximise the competitiveness of UK industry in winning work share should a partnership be possible. Only in the event of an off-the-shelf purchase (more F-35?) would the Tempest investment have been wasted. Investment in UK industry ticks all the current government’s Brexit, regional and levelling-up boxes so I’m not surprised they’re giving it a reasonably high profile.

Last edited by Easy Street; 30th Dec 2020 at 00:12.
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Old 30th Dec 2020, 14:17
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trouble is history shows the UK can't afford to develop anew fighter on its own - in fact post CV19 it may struggle to even afford a major role in a joint development

Can't see the Europeans offering any significant say to us - and the USA ... is the USA..........

Maybe call President Xi?
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Old 1st Mar 2021, 08:29
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https://www.defensenews.com/smr/air-...to-beat-china/

Air Force general worried US won’t field sixth-gen fighter in time to beat China

WASHINGTON — Since September, when the U.S. Air Force disclosed that it had flown a full-scale demonstrator of its future fighter, the defense community has been hungry for more details about the Next Generation Air Dominance program. And Air Force leaders have been loathe to provide them.

That’s what made unprompted comments by Air Combat Command head Gen. Mark Kelly so surprising during a Feb. 26 roundtable with reporters.

During the event, none of the 20-something journalists gathered ventured to ask Kelly about the NGAD program. But as the session drew to a close, Kelly decided to share his thoughts anyway.

“I for one am confident that the technology and the test points have developed to where NGAD technology will get fielded,” he said. “And I’m confident that the adversaries on the other end of this technology will suffer a very tough day and tough week and tough war. What I don’t know — and we’re working with our great partners — is if our nation will have the courage and the focus to field this capability before someone like the Chinese fields it and uses it against us.”

Kelly declined to comment on how close the Air Force is to fielding NGAD — typical of the mystery surrounding the program.

While much remains unknown about the effort, Air Force leaders have said it’s a “family of systems” that could include manned aircraft, drones or other advanced capabilities, rather than a traditional fighter in the mode of the F-16 or F-35.

But it’s unclear how many NGAD demonstrators now exist and which companies manufactured them. Practically every detail about its performance is also classified.

“It’s a keen focus, a keen capability,” Kelly said of NGAD. “We just need to make sure we keep our narrative up and articulate the biggest benefit we’ve had as a nation — to have leading-edge technology ensuring we have air superiority for the nation and the joint force.”

Kelly’s comments may portend that the program is at a turning point where more funding is needed to accelerate its development and fielding timeline.

Lawmakers have been somewhat tepid to the program thus far, funding $904 million of the Air Force’s $1.044 billion request in fiscal 2021. The service previously received $905 million for the program in FY20.

In the FY21 defense policy bill, Congress also mandated that the Pentagon’s independent Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation office conduct a study on Air Force and Navy future fighter programs, including on NGAD’s technology, cost and business case.
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Old 1st Mar 2021, 10:40
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30,000 for a toilet seat lol

Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
There is a big budget going into the black world not publicly accounted for. So something must be going on. And companies keep their people busy for something. Weapon systems need successors. This makes more than two programs going on very likely as a pure speculation. Still interesting that this got dropped now and Potus did drop another one recently.
Reminds me of Jeff Goldblum‘s character father sarcastically stating costs in earshot of the POTUS


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Old 29th Apr 2021, 19:57
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Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy View Post
I am deliberately not mentioning specifics. But the indications are there if you're looking in the right places.

First example: pilots from a particular community 'disappear' for months at a time. When they come back, they're unable to say where they have been or what they have been doing - i.e. they don't even bother with a cover story. In this particular case, the suspicion is that they are rotating in and out of TDYs to fly an optionally-manned platform. This may well be it: https://theaviationist.com/2014/03/2...over-amarillo/

Second example: I am aware of recruitment into a black programme that is operational in nature and favours those who have been assigned to a small set of specific white world squadrons (i.e. these particular squadrons act as clearing houses into the programme). Recruitment into this programme has been active for a decade or more and these aircrew use cover stories.
Ewan,

It would not surprise me regarding your first statement that the particular unit would have some chase trainer such as the one I saw at J-B Andrews Air & Space Expo 2019 (my pic below). And perhaps at a wild-lottery-guess- the aircrews from said below unit potentially have the required skills to fill the prerequisites.



Secondly (no pun intended) with your second scenario, it begs the question if such a platform has existed for a decade, what are the chances it could be unveiled to the wider aviation community and general public in the next couple of years?

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Old 30th Apr 2021, 07:53
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"I am deliberately not mentioning specifics. But the indications are there if you're looking in the right places."

Well I'm sure the Russians and and the Chinese are also monitoring "the right places" so you might as well tell the rest of us
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 09:57
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
"I am deliberately not mentioning specifics. But the indications are there if you're looking in the right places."

Well I'm sure the Russians and and the Chinese are also monitoring "the right places" so you might as well tell the rest of us
Ah - the old ’it’s common knowledge so there’s no harm in telling me’ approach.
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 10:05
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not really its the old post a provocative image with speculation

the talon is from the 509th bomb group - that of enola gay and now the spirit..... so they have a few t-38s as they can't go and fly the b2 every five minutes.

I guess he wants us to go " wow black t-38 then raider must be in service and has been in service " ya da ya da

would have been more interesting with a strategic recon wing t-38 we could have all said aurora lives !
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 10:23
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown View Post
Ah - the old ’it’s common knowledge so there’s no harm in telling me’ approach.
well if HE knows and the Russians and the Chinese know why can't the tax payer know as well?
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 10:30
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 12:54
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Originally Posted by dagenham View Post
not really its the old post a provocative image with speculation

the talon is from the 509th bomb group - that of enola gay and now the spirit..... so they have a few t-38s as they can't go and fly the b2 every five minutes.

I guess he wants us to go " wow black t-38 then raider must be in service and has been in service " ya da ya da

would have been more interesting with a strategic recon wing t-38 we could have all said aurora lives !
And that T-38 has some secret pod underneath, must be some sort of hush-hush cloaking device or directed energy system for the Raider, maybe an inadvertent exposure of the rumored BAttlefield Gigabyte Gauging and GuidancE system, aka BAGGAGE pod.
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 15:44
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
well if HE knows and the Russians and the Chinese know why can't the tax payer know as well?
I waiting for the Revell kit.

True story: Many years ago the Russian Bear was classified information. After a briefing one day, one of the folks was walking home past a hobby shop and saw a kit for the Bear. He bought it and stayed up all night assembling it. the next day he took it to the Pentagon and put it on his desk. It was promptly confiscated and declared a security violation.

Last edited by MarcK; 30th Apr 2021 at 15:45. Reason: spe;;ing error
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 16:39
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Originally Posted by MarcK View Post
I waiting for the Revell kit.

True story: Many years ago the Russian Bear was classified information. After a briefing one day, one of the folks was walking home past a hobby shop and saw a kit for the Bear. He bought it and stayed up all night assembling it. the next day he took it to the Pentagon and put it on his desk. It was promptly confiscated and declared a security violation.
There’s a reason they call it the “Puzzle Palace”, and there are a few pieces missing.
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 19:14
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Whatever it is I sincerely hope that they are making a better fist of than the F-35 and KC-46 fandango !
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Old 1st May 2021, 01:32
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Originally Posted by dagenham View Post
not really its the old post a provocative image with speculation

the talon is from the 509th bomb group - that of enola gay and now the spirit..... so they have a few t-38s as they can't go and fly the b2 every five minutes.

I guess he wants us to go " wow black t-38 then raider must be in service and has been in service " ya da ya da

would have been more interesting with a strategic recon wing t-38 we could have all said aurora lives !
Eleven Matt black T-38 assigned to 9th RW at Beale currently AFAIK and if anyone wants to see 9th in Hollywood then look at 1991 sci fi Final Approach with James B Sikking


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