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Lt(jg) Maddy Swegle USN

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Lt(jg) Maddy Swegle USN

Old 29th Jul 2020, 08:04
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Lt(jg) Maddy Swegle USN

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Old 29th Jul 2020, 08:55
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Be great when an event such as this is a normal occurrence and no longer newsworthy.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 17:42
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Agreed, Chris, but at least in this case we know she got there on merit, and not "positive discrimination". That's the sort of job where you can't make up numbers to look good. Wishing her a long, successful career.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 18:12
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Originally Posted by Herod View Post
Agreed, Chris, but at least in this case we know she got there on merit, and not "positive discrimination". That's the sort of job where you can't make up numbers to look good. Wishing her a long, successful career.
I too wish her every success and a long, successful career.

However, Herod, I take issue with your statement. Sadly, the numbers were made to look good many years. The outcome was not a good one.

Kara Spears Hultgreen (5 October 1965 – 25 October 1994)
Such things have happened before. And I checked again before posting this.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 21:32
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
I too wish her every success and a long, successful career.

However, Herod, I take issue with your statement. Sadly, the numbers were made to look good many years. The outcome was not a good one.

Kara Spears Hultgreen (5 October 1965 – 25 October 1994)
Such things have happened before. And I checked again before posting this.
Maybe Herod assumes, like me, that Hultgreen ensured it can't happen again?

CG
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 22:18
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Kara Spears Hultgreen (5 October 1965 – 25 October 1994)
Such things have happened before. And I checked again before posting this.
Hmmm, "Callsign Revlon" tends to disagree with you.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 22:29
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Originally Posted by denachtenmai View Post
Hmmm, "Callsign Revlon" tends to disagree with you.
Bringing the subject up was always going to be controversial. When does a trainee become a fighter pilot?
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 23:33
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
Bringing the subject up was always going to be controversial. When does a trainee become a fighter pilot?
She’s not a trainee, she has her wings of gold.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 00:14
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Originally Posted by Vortex Hoop View Post
"...I suspect someone in the DOD saw a quick way to capitalise on the recent BLM crap.
Really?
Maybe she's just damn good and deserves it.
Sheesh.
Respect Mam - and it is an awesome achievement.
Well done.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 03:39
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Go to 1:07 in the video.
"It's fun because it is difficult"

Isn't that a part of why any of us got into this profession?

Welcome, LTjg Swegle, to this small and elite collection of mad, aviating humans.

You'll fit in just fine.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 07:33
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When does a trainee become a fighter pilot?
She’s not a trainee, she has her wings of gold
Having the wings is just the first step, you're considered a trainee until completing training to be an operational pilot, once they have completed RAG training. The RAG (replacement air group), also known as a fleet replacement squadron (FRS), is the last stop on the training pipeline for pilots. This is where pilots become proficient on their assigned aircraft. They learn the ins and outs as well as the dos and don'ts of their specific aircraft. The aviators will encounter very similar stages to those they completed in the advanced flight training stage they have just graduated from. For all pilots that will be operative from ships, carrier landing flights will be among the most routine, as well as practicing emergency situation and combat flying. I'd have thought that anyone in the military sporting pilot wings could be described as a fighter pilot, fighting being the military raison d'ętre.

Congratulations Lass, be thinking of you tomorrow when they pin you with those Wings of Gold. Hope you get the posting/aircraft you wish for.

Last edited by megan; 30th Jul 2020 at 07:43.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 21:57
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Bringing the subject up was always going to be controversial. When does a trainee become a fighter pilot?

Islandlad, have you read the book? Kara was a pilot, in a fighter squadron, embarked on a carrier, are you implying that she didn't get there on merit?
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 22:38
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Originally Posted by denachtenmai View Post
Islandlad, have you read the book? Kara was a pilot, in a fighter squadron, embarked on a carrier, are you implying that she didn't get there on merit?
That may be a possibility; positive discrimination may have been a factor -

An Accuracy in Media article quotes CDR Tom Sobiek, commanding officer of Fighter Squadron VF-124, as saying of the four female pilots in his squadron, "The women are going to graduate regardless of how they performed" and "the Navy was in a race with the Air Force to get the first female fighter pilot". It quotes Sobiek denying making any such statement. "That is a flat **** lie," he said. "And whoever told you that, if they were under oath, should be taken to task." Several of the instructors, however, testified to the contrary. During a subsequent interview with Mike Wallace of CBS "60 Minutes," Sobiek finally admitted that he had made statements that may have conveyed the impression that the women would not be allowed to fail. He added that some female pilots were advanced in combat aviation ahead of many men who were kept waiting or forced to resign. ("60 Minutes," April 19, 1998)
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 10:28
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She has not made it to the top. She has made it to the same point as other trainees, based on ability and hard work, the same as everyone.
But it’s not everyone - it’s the few of the few. And it might not be the top of the highest mountain - but when you reach one peak and look over at the next it’s still the top of the one you set out to climb, and where you set your sights on your next mountain.....
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 07:52
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https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/Ne...-gold-in-texas

US Navy’s First Black Female Tactical Air Pilot Earns Wings of Gold in Texas

Virginia native Lt. j.g. Madeline G. Swegle was designated a naval aviator and received her Wings of Gold with 25 classmates during a small ceremony at Naval Air Station (NAS) Kingsville, Texas......

Swegle will report to the “Vikings” of
Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) 129 at NAS Whidbey Island in Washington to begin training as an EA-18G Growler pilot......
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 23:04
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You can claim all you want that at this time merit was the reason someone achieved whatever but it is a fact that positive discrimination has placed people in positions that they would not have gained without this positive discrimination. The downside of this is that previously, in other areas, where these minorities have achieved on merit will now loose merit. I have seen/worked with people who have deservedly achieved what they have but now those that follow and been given these position not through ability but positive discrimination have diluted these achievements because it will be seen as gaining this position due to their gender or race, and not ability. Unfortunately, now, that will also taint those that do have the ability and have achieved whatever position they are in as it will be seen as having been given to them.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 02:55
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Hard to say there is positive discrimination if it took over 30 years for the Navy to have ONE black female fast air pilot. As for Lt Hultgreen, why is she vilified when there have been plenty of male pilots with major Fu*kups who got a pass ?
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 03:04
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Originally Posted by finestkind View Post
You can claim all you want that at this time merit was the reason someone achieved whatever but it is a fact that positive discrimination has placed people in positions that they would not have gained without this positive discrimination.
Back off, sport. Now. Stand down.

You are crapping on someone who did that hard thing: try to drink through a fire hose. I am painfully familiar with the accountant/bean counter initiative to reduce the T-45 syllabus "length" by "ten percent" due to it being "so costly" to train fast jet pilots.

Her predecessors in Fast Jet Land got to fly T-2 and A-4 (CQing in both) before the bean counting scum tried to make it all more "cost effective" - and the original T-45 syllabus did that due to good use of better sims and syllabus design that applied about 60 years of lessons learned in pilot training.

And then the accountants got involved. They took what "was" in the expensively designed T-45 syllabus and claimed that a 10% (actually, more than 10%) reduction in syllabus length was somehow justified. (morons, and not a one an aviator). Not on aviation grounds, but on fiscal grounds.

You gotta a lotta damn nerve to throw any shade on her or any of her contemporaries.
Get bent.

BigPistonsForever
As for Lt Hultgreen, why is she vilified when there have been plenty of male pilots with major Fu*kups who got a pass ?
I had the same question. People with two balls have died hitting the boat since about the time the damned boat was invented. She did not deserve the crap storm that attended her untimely death.
That whole carrier aviation thing?
It's hard.
I have multiple friends and colleagues who died from it.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 4th Aug 2020 at 17:28. Reason: Edited to remove profanity
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 08:17
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Settle Petal your expletive deleted downpour was unnecessary when replying to someone whose views you happen to disagree with.
I was in military flying training for over 30 years and have seen both sides of the coin.
Back off or don't post.
E86
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 00:02
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Originally Posted by eagle 86 View Post
Back off or don't post.
E86
Back yourself off.
Next time you choose to defend the indefensible, which is where my bite was directed...
Originally Posted by finestkind
but it is a fact that positive discrimination has placed people in positions that they would not have gained without this positive discrimination.
instead go and lube up your cyclic and then sit on it. Or, take your own advice and 'don't post.'

This junior officer got trotted out by the Public Affairs gang, who chose to highlight her achievement for their own/political purposes, and she put a good face on it. None of that, being a good soldier/sailor/officer, and doing as your chain of command bids you, is justification for anyone in our fraternity - military aviation - to denigrate her qualification to be there. (PS: you might want to do a bit of due diligence: she's an Annapolis grad, which has its own culling mechanisms long before flight school ever happens)
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