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Red White and Blue Voyager

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Red White and Blue Voyager

Old 17th Jun 2020, 10:06
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Jehovah

Iím going to go against the grain on this one. Sorry.

For large aircraft Iím not sure it makes the slightest difference what colour it is unless it plans to operate in the LL environment and even then I would take some convincing it matters that much.

In these days of high fidelity radars, live satellite uplinks, targeting pods, HMCSs etc the colour of the paint isnít going to matter at all when anyone who wishes to do you harm can either see you anyway (think large aircraft on approach and a guy with a MANPADs) or will have a targeting system that doesnít care what colour your aircraft is.

In fact, couldnít we actually make a better argument nowadays for high visibility paint schemes for all of our aircraft to aid with visual acquisition for safety purposes?

If an aircraft is on the ground does the colour of the paint really make it less easy to see? I mean really? Whatever colour you paint it there is no secret about the fact it is going to be parked on an airfield.

Have I just set the cat amongst the pigeons?!

BV
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 10:25
  #62 (permalink)  
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No problem, BV ... I'm sure you're broadly correct. And I assume the black Hawks, Tucanos etc. are so painted for high-visibility reasons.

I just have an aversion to 'party' colours on military hardware! Do the Army or RN behave in that manner?
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 10:29
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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MPN11

Iím not saying I am correct but I wonder if there is an element of painting aircraft with camouflage paint schemes because weíve always done it that way.

Our enemies know who we are and where to find us anyway so are we just making life difficult for ourselves?!

BV
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 10:32
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Have I just set the cat amongst the pigeons?!
I think you make perfect sense. Everything from airliners to delivery vans carry the operatorsí colours and logos so I see it as entirely proper that an aircraft representing the UK overseas does the same. The Ďcamouflageí argument is ridiculous. If an enemy is allowed to get close enough to a strategic tanker/transport to see what colour the paint is youíve got bigger problems. This frothing about changing the colour of an aircraft comes over as a bit loony.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 10:37
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Didn't take long.. 🤣🤣

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Old 17th Jun 2020, 10:39
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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^^^^It cracks me up that tools who submit these pointless FOIs forget that answer said FOIs takes up time and money as well.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 10:42
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Also, I don't see the same toolbags getting wound up over special Sqn tails, or 50 years of Herc tails, or WW2 commemorative paint schemes.

This forum has gone to shit, like much of the rest of the internet......let's all race to the bottom.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 10:49
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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No problem with a decent paint scheme. However it is a Royal Air Force operated aircraft and as such should fit into the corporate theme of the organisation. Most on this thread are ultra conservative. I am like that in regards to the way RAF aircraft look for business. Wish our display aircraft had more of the creativity of other airforces, but that is a different question and matter. As long as the A330 is not a Boris 350 million to the NHS bus.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 11:00
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Diesel_10 View Post
My man on the inside reckons its the AirTanker leased Voyager to Thomas Cook - now defunct. So it wouldn't have been in grey if it were needed. Calm down remoaners.
Thanks for clarifying boomer, really contributed there.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 11:01
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by downsizer View Post
^^^^It cracks me up that tools who submit these pointless FOIs forget that answer said FOIs takes up time and money as well.
Democrary old boy. People like you shouted loudly about it in 2016. It doesn't end because it is something you disagree with. As for the internet, the other forum you are involved in, is a race to the bottom and that is why hardly anybody looks at it. It is like the Air Mech engineers forum that gone so low, no admins at all do anything to it. I run a FB group that is strong because it is actively administered and not allowed to be taken over from what it is there for, so I disagree on "the everything on the internet". As for my comments about Boris, I am taking the mick.

Last edited by Cat Techie; 17th Jun 2020 at 11:22.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 11:20
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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In fact, couldn’t we actually make a better argument nowadays for high visibility paint schemes for all of our aircraft to aid with visual acquisition for safety purposes?
Yes paint them all in different airline schemes and hide them amongst the Civi clutter.. After all, they would, one assumes disperse and it was proven in Berlin, there is no point painting ones armour green/black when it operates in an urban environment.

Last edited by NutLoose; 17th Jun 2020 at 11:34.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 11:34
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
Democrary old boy. People like you shouted loudly about it in 2016. It doesn't end because it is something you disagree with. As for the internet, the other forum you are involved in, is a race to the bottom and that is why hardly anybody looks at it. It is like the Air Mech engineers forum that gone so low, no admins at all do anything to it. I run a FB group that is strong because it is actively administered and not allowed to be taken over from what it is there for, so I disagree on "the everything on the internet". As for my comments about Boris, I am taking the mick.
I moaned about what in 2016? You lost me there IILKC.

I'm involved in a number of forums so not sure which one you mean anyway; Ok, maybe not everything on the internet has gone to shit, but a very large chunk of it has. You have to look hard to find anything moderate and unpolarised these days.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 11:35
  #73 (permalink)  
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I can see Bozzer, now, as he stands at the top of the steps, waving to his admirers in some sort of military style suit and a big hat with plenty of medal ribbons on it. Sadly, Boris and his Svengali will never understand that, when they rock up to a G7 wrapped in the Union flag, everyone is only going to be thinking of the rate per million of deaths from Covid-19.

As flashy aircraft are the preserve of banana republics, we now qualify.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 11:46
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by downsizer View Post
I moaned about what in 2016? You lost me there IILKC.

I'm involved in a number of forums so not sure which one you mean anyway; Ok, maybe not everything on the internet has gone to shit, but a very large chunk of it has. You have to look hard to find anything moderate and unpolarised these days.
True. The truth does get drowned out with the bull and the nastiness of both sides of the spectrum. I have other things to really bother me more that the internet like a lot of the working people on here that do not work to or on a military contract.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 12:23
  #75 (permalink)  
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So the spare Voyager aircraft that Air Tanker leased to Thomas Cook is now looking for a new customer. The government decides to take it on and, since it isn't required for front-line military service, they wish to replace the Thomas Cook livery with a more patriotic one for use by Royalty and government ministers - like 32 (Royal) Sqn) for instance. Hence the anti-Boris section of the population want to use it for a bit of Boris Bashing and that's only to be expected, surely? The mainstream media are certainly unlikely to broadcast anything that would calm the fuss by reporting the facts.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 13:11
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ICM View Post
Whatever the colour scheme turns out to be, it's an additional bit of mission-creep with the VIP airframe, given that there was no VIP provision when the Voyager contract was completed. There's a certain inevitability about it all, but I imagine that getting the contact signed at all was something of a triumph at the time.
Quite so, a triumph for AirTanker. Mission creep = £
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 13:33
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blacksheep View Post
So the spare Voyager aircraft that Air Tanker leased to Thomas Cook is now looking for a new customer. The government decides to take it on and, since it isn't required for front-line military service, they wish to replace the Thomas Cook livery with a more patriotic one for use by Royalty and government ministers - like 32 (Royal) Sqn) for instance. Hence the anti-Boris section of the population want to use it for a bit of Boris Bashing and that's only to be expected, surely? The mainstream media are certainly unlikely to broadcast anything that would calm the fuss by reporting the facts.
But it won't be the spare. It is the one with the VIP fit, and which is a permanent part of the RAF fleet as it is often required for that role.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 13:38
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect that the repainting of the TC ac and the change to the VIP frame colour scheme are unrelated. The VIP ac (336) is the only one with the posh fit ,so, unless the MOD has decided to go to another expenditure of many millions, then I suspect that what is going on at Cambridge is simply the demodification from TC livery/fit -incidentaly paid for by Air Tanker.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 13:52
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Now you're talking.
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 13:53
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
As a 'military asset', low-visibility in the air and on the ground enhances survivability. Yes, i know there's stuff called radar and all that, but there's no sense in making the asset stand out like canis testiculos
And painting it grey does that at 35,000ft? What about contrails etc?
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