Bolivian air force crash
It is many years since I have flown a Zlin 242 so, hopefully, there is someone on here who has some recent experience on the type. I have also watched other online videos of one being flown aerobatically and it appears that the roll rate at the initiation of the accident manoeuvre was less than maximum. I suspect that the right yaw seen was greater than any adverse yaw so some top rudder was possibly used. I think that the fundamental problem was that the nose dropped during an attempted straight roll, as it inevitably will as a function of true airspeed and time to roll, and after 270 deg of roll the pilot attempted to correct the nose drop by pulling back on the stick. As this occurred at 90 deg of bank I suspect that left stick was still applied to achieve wings level. These inputs caused a reduction in the left roll rate and it actually appeared to have a right roll rate before impact. Therefore, the aeroplane had probably departed from controlled flight as a result of the aft stick input. This is not the first time that I have seen accidents such as this.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,643
Received 300 Likes
on
168 Posts
Thanks Lomcevak!
Doing aerobatics at low level is a risky business as there is scant room for error.
That being said....do it right and it is safe as houses.
But don't goof up!
I was blessed to get to know Bud Granley who certainly knows his stuff.
In an Airplane....he is a very good stick....like really good.
He begins his T-6 Texan (Harvard) routine with a Snap Roll on takeoff and has done so for many years.
I tried to find an external view of the maneuver but had to settle for the Cockpit Go Pro view.
That being said....do it right and it is safe as houses.
But don't goof up!
I was blessed to get to know Bud Granley who certainly knows his stuff.
In an Airplane....he is a very good stick....like really good.
He begins his T-6 Texan (Harvard) routine with a Snap Roll on takeoff and has done so for many years.
I tried to find an external view of the maneuver but had to settle for the Cockpit Go Pro view.
[QUOTE=megan;10731600]Almost anything is possible if you have the requisite skill.
/QUOTE]
Exactly. I'm kind of perplexed that many responders are speculating on what went wrong. What went wrong was, he decided to do it.
CG
/QUOTE]
Exactly. I'm kind of perplexed that many responders are speculating on what went wrong. What went wrong was, he decided to do it.
CG
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,643
Received 300 Likes
on
168 Posts
Bud Granley's snap roll on take off - ff to 3m 50s - lovely and smooth...
Almost anything is possible if you have the requisite skill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyBDEG9dg-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyBDEG9dg-Q
Not all F-104s had downwards firing seats; only the XF-104s and early F-104As.
http://www.ejectionsite.com/f104seat.htm
One of Roly Beamont's memoirs has a sobering description of his briefing as the first non-US test pilot to fly the type. The briefing was interrupted by a cloud of smokeon the horizon, and the pilot failed to escape. Downwards firing seat in that one he said, IIRC.
http://www.ejectionsite.com/f104seat.htm
One of Roly Beamont's memoirs has a sobering description of his briefing as the first non-US test pilot to fly the type. The briefing was interrupted by a cloud of smokeon the horizon, and the pilot failed to escape. Downwards firing seat in that one he said, IIRC.
My Dad flew Harvard's at RAF Heaney in Rhodesia in 1942, he continued his RAF flying career until finally grounded in 1982. He described the Harvard as "unforgiving". So I would say Bud is either very brave or very foolish. As my dad would often say to me, "there are old pilots and bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots." Before anyone starts disagreeing with him on that, there are exceptions that prove the rule, Ray Hanna and R A "Bob" Hoover spring to mind but they are very much in the minority. The other thing my dad said to me is "an aircraft is always waiting to kill you, if you let it".
So I would say Bud is either very brave or very foolish.
Perhaps you might recall he was in his mid-70's when that video and interview was made.
He is old....and by some definitions a bold man....but he is for sure one very skilled aerobatic pilot that knows his stuff and flies very precisely.
As you criticized a Man without having any direct knowledge of the fellow.....I would suggest you are being crass and rude. Did your old Daddy teach you to be that way or did he teach you to respect your Elders?
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Dad flew Harvard's at RAF Heaney in Rhodesia in 1942, he continued his RAF flying career until finally grounded in 1982. He described the Harvard as "unforgiving". So I would say Bud is either very brave or very foolish. As my dad would often say to me, "there are old pilots and bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots." Before anyone starts disagreeing with him on that, there are exceptions that prove the rule, Ray Hanna and R A "Bob" Hoover spring to mind but they are very much in the minority. The other thing my dad said to me is "an aircraft is always waiting to kill you, if you let it".
From looking at the video I would not say Bud is a bold pilot. He is also old so he must have got something right (SASless knows more).
Between old and bold there are good, careful pilots. Probably a bit like your dad. The sort I strive to be.
Aircraft are not forgiving or trying to kill you (they are not Lions) Put any one of them in the wrong place and you have let yourself down.
Getting back on topic - from where the crew of the Zlin started that roll .... one of them in that cockpit was very bold. Neither will become old.
