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The F-35 thread, Mk II

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The F-35 thread, Mk II

Old 3rd May 2021, 14:13
  #321 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: florida
Age: 78
Posts: 1,360

BTW the USMC and UK Bees had a good time a year or two ago off our shores and then true interoperability demonstrated last fall:


My point about "combat effective" versus "cost effective" is more about training and tactical use than the $$ of a Maverick versus the $$ of the tank it kills. Ditto for an Aim-9 that kills a multimillion $$ plane.

Ask Mogs about the Lima in the Falklands if it was "combat effective"... Hardly anyone in USAF routinely fires the real things in training. Years ago when the Earth was still cooling and we had evaluation programs that used "old" missiles before their "best by" dates, heh heh, I actually got fire the Genie rocket twice when I was new elltee. But we cannot use up the real things during training, and only we only see how really good they are is in combat. So far, the Slammer and Lima have done better than anything we tried in 'nam or even what the Israeli's used in 1967 or 1973. The LGB's results are legendary, and the GPS bombs have been a very nice surprise. Nevertheless, we would dramatically raise many $$$ metrics if we routinely used them in training versus the captive carraige missiles and such.

Our "U.S." polytickians now in charge have eyes on other things than the F-35 to finance, and we still have many 4th gen platforms that have decades of supply line experience and so forth, until....... we are now at the point where many vendors that provided the original parts are out of business. How much will it cost to have many new "start up" companies? How many widgets do we have back in some warehouse? And the beat goes on.

Gums sends...

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Old 4th May 2021, 11:51
  #322 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: The Gulf Coast
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
Hopefully the Pentagon brass and politicians have learned from the F-35 program what not to do in the future.
Unlikely, particularly in the case of the latter.
Further that point it appears to be a systemic problem in many capitals. Difficulty with actually learning lessons is not confined to Washington.

@gums: regarding your point on use of live ammunition. Daesh, in recent memory, has provided numerous opportunities for the final operational testing and evaluation of systems using live ammunition. Should someone from the F-35 program office write them a "Thank You" card?
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Old 12th May 2021, 09:16
  #323 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
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Fortnight ago Wake Island Avengers return

A fortnight ago I was at RAF Lakenheath when the first five Wake Island Avengers came back to the UK. For some reason they did nit come back to Marham as last September so here are some of my photos.

Then come Sunday and Monday, they all left to go to the QE all bar one which went tech on the Monday so here are my photos.


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Old 12th May 2021, 10:11
  #324 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 2,490
Vermont ANG

The Virginia ANG F-35A arrived on the Tuesday here at Lakenheath two weeks ago between the first wave of Wake Island Avengers F-35B arriving on the Monday and the second wave arriving at the dark of night 9n t/e Wednesday,

AFAIK they are the only / Reserve Unit to fly the F-35A anyhow here are my photos apologies for the grainy as it was not exactly perfect conditions.

The other eight went to Spang.

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Old 12th May 2021, 21:55
  #325 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,089
466th FS Air Force Reserve - within 419th FW Air Force Reserve - at Hill AFB, Utah - also operates the F-35A.

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Old 12th May 2021, 21:58
  #326 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,089
4th FS F-35As currently at Mont-de-Marsan, France

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Old 12th May 2021, 23:51
  #327 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: florida
Age: 78
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Yeah, the Rattlers down the flightline from the 388th Fighter Wing got their F-35's same time as the USAF wing folks. Was same way almost back in early 80's, but the active duty wing got theirs first. I volunteered and got to help the 466th Rattlers check out in the Viper 1983-1984. A good bunch, mostly from Thuds and a good group from the Sluf that I knew from Myrtle Beach in early 70's.

Gums recalls...
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Old 13th May 2021, 09:49
  #328 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Here 'n' there!
Posts: 549
Hi gums, think you and I are really talking the same thing really re "cost" and "operational" effectiveness. My take is, if a weapon does not kill as required as demanded in the OR Spec, it ain't "cost-effective" no matter what! And, as you say, next gen technology (the Lima as quote for '82) moves things along. All agreed!

It's when you can achieve the same tactical result by different means for less money that "cost-effectiveness" comes into play and, tbh, that seems to be a biggy now. I think it's this which is causing a re-think on F35 costs. Perhaps a good example is WW 1 and the use of Mustard Gas against the use of Artillery bombardment. Same end result (soldiers removed from the fight) just achieved by different means and different costs of delivery...... I think the next 20 years will see a huge shift with Swarm technology, "Loyal Wingmen" etc, etc. Quite where it will lead to, well, if I knew that I'd not be here!! I'd be making £Squillions!

Still, returning to the near-future and overall UK F35 programme, the link here is the first fairly tangible evidence (that I've seen!) as to the desired way forward. Of course, just a small issue of getting such plans past HM Treasury - and no dates given. Let's hope the plans work out tho but nice to see some more concrete thoughts from "on high"! Anyway, just my view! Cheers, H 'n' H

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