The French
Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt
Not sure what you are talking about, but what would relations between France and the US Air Force have to do with friendship between France and England ?
Jack
I wish I understood what this Thread is about.
Is there evidence somewhere that FR denied use of their airspace, which is the only thing I can derive so far.
Is there evidence somewhere that FR denied use of their airspace, which is the only thing I can derive so far.
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I saw these tankers coming out of Aviano and watched them via FR24 to somewhere north of Majorca. I think they then went on to somewhere near Rota and then I saw perhaps a couple of them later in the day over northern France northbound, presumably going back to Mildenhall (cant say for sure as I was otherwise occupied). I think some of the C17's have been tanking in the Western Med/Gib area and carrying on eastwards.
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Originally Posted by Wee Weasley Welshman
Are the French refusing tankers back to the UK?
They were not helpful when the USAF out of the UK knocked on Qadaffi's Door as you recall.
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Another point to note is that many military transit sorties across Europe are done on standing clearances. These typically have constraints on them, e.g. on what cargoes can be carried, which operations can be directly or indirectly supported, etc. Where none of the standing clearances are applicable, an application has to be made for a specific clearance. This can sometimes be a rubber-stamp at office level (eg 'we want to carry 5% more ammunition than the standing clearance allows') but other times it could be ministerial or even presidential (eg 'we want to do something secret and we'll only tell the big boss what it is'). The latter takes a finite time and just asking the question could pose an OPSEC risk. So if there is an alternative (longer) way around that needs no special action then it can be quicker and safer just to fly that. And it avoids putting friendly air forces in a potentially difficult position.
[Last time I had cause to plan a transit, the French had a large selection of standing clearances on offer. The Swiss and Austrians (one of which would need to be crossed enroute from Aviano to Mildenhall on a direct route avoiding France) had none.]
[Last time I had cause to plan a transit, the French had a large selection of standing clearances on offer. The Swiss and Austrians (one of which would need to be crossed enroute from Aviano to Mildenhall on a direct route avoiding France) had none.]
Last edited by Easy Street; 4th Jan 2020 at 23:37.
Originally Posted by SASless
The French shall always be the French.
They were not helpful when the USAF out of the UK knocked on Qadaffi's Door as you recall.
They were not helpful when the USAF out of the UK knocked on Qadaffi's Door as you recall.
Less Hair.....which history book you reading from?
The French refused to let the F-111's cross French Territory adding 2600 miles to the Aardvark's flight on that raid.
They refused to allow flight in either direction....armed enroll to the target or void of bombs on the way back.
The French refused to let the F-111's cross French Territory adding 2600 miles to the Aardvark's flight on that raid.
They refused to allow flight in either direction....armed enroll to the target or void of bombs on the way back.
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Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc
They may have felt removing him would do more harm than good, just like they warned Saddam had no WMDs and removing him was a bad idea. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, both opinions would appear to have had merit.
Originally Posted by SASless
The French shall always be the French.
They refused to allow flight in either direction....armed enroll to the target or void of bombs on the way back
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Originally Posted by Easy Street
Another point to note is that many military transit sorties across Europe are done on standing clearances.
I asked a colleague who flew right seat on Air Force One during the Clinton Administration why the SAM flight couldn't take the shortcut. He said that the SAM flights were considered 'state aircraft' even though they were military and required specific overflight clearance to go closer than 12 miles off the coast of another nation. Apparently a lot of effort is put into obtaining these clearances for each mission.
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Little footnote about the Libya raid:
I was standing outside my house in S. Portugal when a bunch of F111s went over very low and fast, heading south-east. Cutting the corner? Except that it was a couple of days after the strike. Never saw anything in the media about it.
I was standing outside my house in S. Portugal when a bunch of F111s went over very low and fast, heading south-east. Cutting the corner? Except that it was a couple of days after the strike. Never saw anything in the media about it.
Last edited by DownWest; 5th Jan 2020 at 08:10.
