The Military Division of the New Year Honours 2020
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The Military Division of the New Year Honours 2020
The Military Division of the New Year Honours 2020
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/t...r-honours-2020
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Sorry but if it was SAC joe blogs who had spent 20 years servicing aircraft bogs I would have more respect for the awards rather than some wing commander who has been awarded it on the backs of the said SAC or has been awarded it by simply attaining a rank, the system is corrupt and stinks to the core, the Country is full of far more deserving people like those that donate their lives to the care of others, whilst earning a piss poor renumeration.
It's a farce
AM = KB
AVM = CB
OBE = Grp Capt, Wing Cdr
MBE = Sq Lead & the common herd
and of course you stand a much greater chance of getting a gong the higher up the greasy pole you are
AM = KB
AVM = CB
OBE = Grp Capt, Wing Cdr
MBE = Sq Lead & the common herd
and of course you stand a much greater chance of getting a gong the higher up the greasy pole you are
Devils Advocate
I’m not saying I disagree with the previous viewpoints entirely and I can’t pretend I care either way. I am content that I am highly unlikely to ever receive such an award and it really does not bother me in the slightest.
Here’s the contentious bit though. And I really am just saying it to play devils advocate not because I really believe it. Maybe those senior officers have earned the honour? Maybe the higher up the pole you get, the more influence you have and therefore the easier it is to earn an honour.
I fly jets. I’ve been doing it for a reasonably long time. But in the grand scheme of things, I am just one pilot doing a common job and my individual contribution doesn’t keep the world turning. Andy Edgell’s contribution on the other hand has had more of an impact, hence the honour.
Now, if SAC Bloggs were to have revolutionised the toilet cleaning role and made a contribution that changes the toilet cleaning world for the better then maybe he could receive an honour. But just like I don’t deserve an honour simply for doing my day job maybe neither does he?
I just can’t shake the feeling that every time the honours list comes out we get the standard sour grapes posts. Just try to be happy for others rather than gnashing your teeth. It’ll save your teeth for starters.
BV
Here’s the contentious bit though. And I really am just saying it to play devils advocate not because I really believe it. Maybe those senior officers have earned the honour? Maybe the higher up the pole you get, the more influence you have and therefore the easier it is to earn an honour.
I fly jets. I’ve been doing it for a reasonably long time. But in the grand scheme of things, I am just one pilot doing a common job and my individual contribution doesn’t keep the world turning. Andy Edgell’s contribution on the other hand has had more of an impact, hence the honour.
Now, if SAC Bloggs were to have revolutionised the toilet cleaning role and made a contribution that changes the toilet cleaning world for the better then maybe he could receive an honour. But just like I don’t deserve an honour simply for doing my day job maybe neither does he?
I just can’t shake the feeling that every time the honours list comes out we get the standard sour grapes posts. Just try to be happy for others rather than gnashing your teeth. It’ll save your teeth for starters.
BV
I strongly support honours for bravery etc - but for doing your job well? The reward for that should be accelerated promotion (or more money in civie street)
And the clear and very formal association with rank is obvious - are we really saying that EVERY AM and AVM did a better job than EVERY one of the recipients of the OBE? Very very doubtful
And the clear and very formal association with rank is obvious - are we really saying that EVERY AM and AVM did a better job than EVERY one of the recipients of the OBE? Very very doubtful
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was it not John Major who attempted, with mixed success, to democratise some the processes? ISTR that the 'automatic K' on promotion to 3* went long ago.
As to the rest of it, I have little to argue about. Certainly some/many have greater opportunities for earning extra recognition, and the higher up the tree the greater the opportunity for a national honour.
As to the rest of it, I have little to argue about. Certainly some/many have greater opportunities for earning extra recognition, and the higher up the tree the greater the opportunity for a national honour.
I've little time for those with chips on their shoulders who trot out the same old moans every year at this time.
But Honours for luvvies or overpaid people who run, jump, splash about, throw, kick or hit things? Even less.
But Honours for luvvies or overpaid people who run, jump, splash about, throw, kick or hit things? Even less.
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Ah, not currant on that! But I get the feeling these top guys have to do a year or so before the K.
As to the sporting/luvvie fraternity/sorority, I guess some are deserved when they do other things (e.g. Charidee) but just getting an honour for being good at sport and winning some medals is, IMO, stupid. Indeed, on that basis, I should have got something!
But I do applaud the long-term successes of Dave Calvert MBE https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/shooting/43567224
And my old team-mate Mick Gault OBE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Gault
As to the sporting/luvvie fraternity/sorority, I guess some are deserved when they do other things (e.g. Charidee) but just getting an honour for being good at sport and winning some medals is, IMO, stupid. Indeed, on that basis, I should have got something!
But I do applaud the long-term successes of Dave Calvert MBE https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/shooting/43567224
And my old team-mate Mick Gault OBE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Gault
I strongly support honours for bravery etc - but for doing your job well? The reward for that should be accelerated promotion (or more money in civie street)
And the clear and very formal association with rank is obvious - are we really saying that EVERY AM and AVM did a better job than EVERY one of the recipients of the OBE? Very very doubtful
And the clear and very formal association with rank is obvious - are we really saying that EVERY AM and AVM did a better job than EVERY one of the recipients of the OBE? Very very doubtful
How do you give accelerated promotion to a senior officer when the number of available posts is so small? And yes, a AM who has done sufficiently well to warrant state recognition will have done a ‘better job’ than a wg cdr because the span of their responsibilities is so much greater and they are able to make more of a difference to the success of the wider organisation.
Meanwhile the lack of a ‘K’ for the new chief probably stems from the fact that he only became a 3* just over a year ago and the submissions for this list had to be in several months ago, so he wouldn’t have accrued enough ‘evidence’ in a rank eligible for knighthood. Would be very surprising if he’s not on the next list or the one after, though.
Congratulations to all on the list!
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Break with tradition or admin errors!
Over recent years, the CAS have (if not already been awarded a 'K') been awarded a 'K' prior to their appointment as CAS, usually in the NYHL, with them taking over as CAS around July time.
Also, on leaving the CAS role, the incumbent is usually 'upgraded' to either GCB or GBE, if not before leaving post, at the next immediate HL. Interestingly, the last CAS, Sir Stephen Hillier hasn't received an 'upgrade', yet the last 1SL has, in this NYHL.
Maybe the RAF are looking to break with tradition, or there has been a few admin errors!
Either way, congratulations to all receipients
Also, on leaving the CAS role, the incumbent is usually 'upgraded' to either GCB or GBE, if not before leaving post, at the next immediate HL. Interestingly, the last CAS, Sir Stephen Hillier hasn't received an 'upgrade', yet the last 1SL has, in this NYHL.
Maybe the RAF are looking to break with tradition, or there has been a few admin errors!
Either way, congratulations to all receipients
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Wasn't there a well known chap who got a knighthood, OBE, several honorary doctorates, an honorary Green Beret from the RM and assorted honors and awards from every which where...who subsequently (and posthumously) turned out to be a human turd of the first order, and what's more, turned out a fair few people dishing out said awards might have had more than an inkling this was the case.
...so not fan. Never was.
Sour grapes...don't be childish, apart from 27 wonderful years with awesome people, I got myself something a gazillion times more important. It's called a pension.
To those who got given awards n'stuff; very well done. And to those who do wonderful, but often invisible and thankless jobs in all manner of public service...thank you so much, all of you.
...so not fan. Never was.
Sour grapes...don't be childish, apart from 27 wonderful years with awesome people, I got myself something a gazillion times more important. It's called a pension.
To those who got given awards n'stuff; very well done. And to those who do wonderful, but often invisible and thankless jobs in all manner of public service...thank you so much, all of you.
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No pomme frites on my shoulder, I simply think the whole system is corrupted, I was reading about the guy on London Bridge who took on the knife wielding terrorist, the fact he in his past was a murderer has instantly prevented him going to Betty's place to receive an high honour and he may now receive a lessor police award to circumvent the rules. So much so for rewarding bravery, true I realise he murdered a girl in his past, a heinous crime, but that should not detract from the fact he put himself in danger and was a large part of preventing further deaths and should be honour on par with the others involved. Though latest articles seem to now indicate that may change, I hope it does.
Last edited by NutLoose; 28th Dec 2019 at 17:37.
I'm with you Nut but TBF no awards for civilian gallantry are made instantly in the UK anymore - it took months for the London Bridge/Borough Market awards to come through. They have to make sure everyone is ID'd, that their contribution is correctly documented etc etc - and in the case where there might be a trial (luckily not in this case) they may be delayed until there is a verdict in case it "influences the jury"
I'd suspect it 'll be GM's for several people here tho'.................
I'd suspect it 'll be GM's for several people here tho'.................
I knew a chap in the RAF who went on to very senior rank - AM. Along with each promotion seemed to come yet another appearance in the Honours List. The Officer in question was clearly a capable fellow, and dare I say, a really nice guy, but such a stream of awards was surely unnecessary.
Don't even start me upon sports 'personalities' and artistic luvvies. Thankfully there are still plenty of awards for ordinary people doing extraordinary things for society - long may such awards dominate the lists in terms of numbers if not publicity.
Don't even start me upon sports 'personalities' and artistic luvvies. Thankfully there are still plenty of awards for ordinary people doing extraordinary things for society - long may such awards dominate the lists in terms of numbers if not publicity.
Another thought...
The general disdain for ‘artistic luvvies’ and sportspeople on this forum also baffles me.
I realise their exploits may not be to your taste or in a field you care much about. However, whether you agree or not their exploits bring a lot of pleasure to a great many people (much of it vicariously admittedly) and that is the point of the award.
The local person doing civic deeds is very deserving of an award but probably reaches far fewer people in reality.
Basically, however the system works you’ll never please everyone.
If you hand them out like candy you devalue them. If you make them too hard to get they become pointless. And some people will just never agree with most awards whatever the criteria.
BV
I realise their exploits may not be to your taste or in a field you care much about. However, whether you agree or not their exploits bring a lot of pleasure to a great many people (much of it vicariously admittedly) and that is the point of the award.
The local person doing civic deeds is very deserving of an award but probably reaches far fewer people in reality.
Basically, however the system works you’ll never please everyone.
If you hand them out like candy you devalue them. If you make them too hard to get they become pointless. And some people will just never agree with most awards whatever the criteria.
BV
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Assume the acting and sports honours come under the "be outstanding at what they do" category.
The honours system recognises people who have:
They must still be actively involved in what you’re nominating them for.
- made achievements in public life
- committed themselves to serving and helping Britain
They must still be actively involved in what you’re nominating them for.
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Sorry but if it was SAC joe blogs who had spent 20 years servicing aircraft bogs I would have more respect for the awards rather than some wing commander who has been awarded it on the backs of the said SAC or has been awarded it by simply attaining a rank, the system is corrupt and stinks to the core, the Country is full of far more deserving people like those that donate their lives to the care of others, whilst earning a piss poor renumeration.
Public service employment will never come with the opportunity to make large bounds In pay increment and for a long time now part of ‘the deal’ is the a recognised path towards receiving honours and award of this nature. Where pay is not a lever ; gongs and status a viable tool. As many here have said many times before - it’s not all about the money. Recognition is formalised this way.