US to Buy Back Swiss F-5s
Patrouille Suisse
This does or does not affect the Patrouille Suisse? I know the teams future is in the wind so to speak because of the airframes future. I was not aware the Swiss still had the F-5E as thought they retired from the front line with more advent of the F/A-18C..
Also thought 2 decades ago the Swiss sold. Inch of F-5 which ended up with Navy aggressors?
It was nice to see the Patrouille Suisse perform few back in September at AirPower ..(my photos below)
cheers
Also thought 2 decades ago the Swiss sold. Inch of F-5 which ended up with Navy aggressors?
It was nice to see the Patrouille Suisse perform few back in September at AirPower ..(my photos below)
cheers
A new step in the Air Police Service 24 project
Bern, December 27, 2018 - From January 1, 2019, the air police service will take another step by extending readiness to 365 days - including weekends and public holidays - from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. The continuous availability of the air police will be achieved by the end of 2020. From then on, two armed aircraft will be operational around the clock for 365 days. The new step as of January 1, 2019 makes it possible to cover far more than 90% of air traffic over Switzerland.
The first step took place at the beginning of 2016: two armed aircraft were then available on weekdays from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Since January 2017, readiness has been expanded to 365 days - including weekends and public holidays. From 2019, the jets will be available from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. During these times, well over 90% of air traffic takes place over Switzerland. At the end of 2020, the expansion will take place to 24 hours over 365 days.
Bern, December 27, 2018 - From January 1, 2019, the air police service will take another step by extending readiness to 365 days - including weekends and public holidays - from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. The continuous availability of the air police will be achieved by the end of 2020. From then on, two armed aircraft will be operational around the clock for 365 days. The new step as of January 1, 2019 makes it possible to cover far more than 90% of air traffic over Switzerland.
The first step took place at the beginning of 2016: two armed aircraft were then available on weekdays from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Since January 2017, readiness has been expanded to 365 days - including weekends and public holidays. From 2019, the jets will be available from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. During these times, well over 90% of air traffic takes place over Switzerland. At the end of 2020, the expansion will take place to 24 hours over 365 days.
https://www.admin.ch/gov/de/start/do...-id-73559.html
I still find it odd that the Swiss RFP for the F-5 and now F/A-18 replacement also state that the selected platform must be able to go toe-to-toe with a 'Flanker'-series fighter. If a Flanker has crossed half of Europe and at least three NATO nations to find itself in Swiss airspace, then Switzerland has much bigger problems than a Gripen/Super Hornet/F-35 can fix.
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Anyone see any potential problems here ?
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I still find it odd that the Swiss RFP for the F-5 and now F/A-18 replacement also state that the selected platform must be able to go toe-to-toe with a 'Flanker'-series fighter. If a Flanker has crossed half of Europe and at least three NATO nations to find itself in Swiss airspace, then Switzerland has much bigger problems than a Gripen/Super Hornet/F-35 can fix.
What a dumb comment! How about the Swiss contribute to the defense of the continent like other Western European nations do? Y’all Euros enjoy the American umbrella over your heads, maybe you could pitch in just a little bit... Or do all those mountains and being a “neutral country” keep you safe? FFS!
Dumb comment indeed.
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The Swiss do of course contribute to the continent's QRA cover with cooperative nations flying missions over each-others airspace with coordinated hand-overs when required. The only unusual part of the Swiss QRA mission is that, at times, it does not provide any of its own aircraft to the mix and is reliant on others for the air segment. The ground environment is 24/7 and provides picture to other nations as well as the legal RoE stuff for cross-boarder missions. Due to geography and coverage most live QRA intercepts undertaken by the Swiss AF tend to take place over surrounding countries and vice versa.
The Swiss do train and deploy outside of their boarders, including the army. They provided support to the KFOR NATO mission in Kosovo from the get-go and last time I had any dealings with them they still had a reinforced company in Kosovo.
Regarding their selection of potential threat aircraft, well it would be rather odd if they decided that the most likely threat to model against was EF/Typhoon, F-16 or indeed any of the types they coordinate their QRA missions with, rather than a type that was an actual adversary in the original KFOR mission.
Self-proclaiming comment there, with the dumb quote.
The Swiss do of course contribute to the continent's QRA cover with cooperative nations flying missions over each-others airspace with coordinated hand-overs when required. The only unusual part of the Swiss QRA mission is that, at times, it does not provide any of its own aircraft to the mix and is reliant on others for the air segment. The ground environment is 24/7 and provides picture to other nations as well as the legal RoE stuff for cross-boarder missions. Due to geography and coverage most live QRA intercepts undertaken by the Swiss AF tend to take place over surrounding countries and vice versa.
The Swiss do train and deploy outside of their boarders, including the army. They provided support to the KFOR NATO mission in Kosovo from the get-go and last time I had any dealings with them they still had a reinforced company in Kosovo.
Regarding their selection of potential threat aircraft, well it would be rather odd if they decided that the most likely threat to model against was EF/Typhoon, F-16 or indeed any of the types they coordinate their QRA missions with, rather than a type that was an actual adversary in the original KFOR mission.
The Swiss do of course contribute to the continent's QRA cover with cooperative nations flying missions over each-others airspace with coordinated hand-overs when required. The only unusual part of the Swiss QRA mission is that, at times, it does not provide any of its own aircraft to the mix and is reliant on others for the air segment. The ground environment is 24/7 and provides picture to other nations as well as the legal RoE stuff for cross-boarder missions. Due to geography and coverage most live QRA intercepts undertaken by the Swiss AF tend to take place over surrounding countries and vice versa.
The Swiss do train and deploy outside of their boarders, including the army. They provided support to the KFOR NATO mission in Kosovo from the get-go and last time I had any dealings with them they still had a reinforced company in Kosovo.
Regarding their selection of potential threat aircraft, well it would be rather odd if they decided that the most likely threat to model against was EF/Typhoon, F-16 or indeed any of the types they coordinate their QRA missions with, rather than a type that was an actual adversary in the original KFOR mission.
Not concerned with ground cooperation, that's not the issue being discussed.
NATO KFOR and other such missions are not "defending the continent", and they do not include an air component as is bring discussed.
As I stated before, if the threat the Swiss have to defend against is a Flanker then things have gone very wrong for them and everyone else, and no fighter type is going to be of much realistic use to them.
Dumb indeed.
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So not providing its own aircraft to the international QRA effort then? That's some contribution. And cooperation with its immediate neighbours is about national security, not "defending the continent".
Not concerned with ground cooperation, that's not the issue being discussed.
NATO KFOR and other such missions are not "defending the continent", and they do not include an air component as is bring discussed.
As I stated before, if the threat the Swiss have to defend against is a Flanker then things have gone very wrong for them and everyone else, and no fighter type is going to be of much realistic use to them.
Dumb indeed.
Not concerned with ground cooperation, that's not the issue being discussed.
NATO KFOR and other such missions are not "defending the continent", and they do not include an air component as is bring discussed.
As I stated before, if the threat the Swiss have to defend against is a Flanker then things have gone very wrong for them and everyone else, and no fighter type is going to be of much realistic use to them.
Dumb indeed.
Switzerland is a wealthy country and can afford to contribute. They should. Tell me... what happens when the US finally hits that debt level at which creditors decide it’s no longer worth buying? Maybe then those countries will take a bit more interest in guaranteeing their own security. In the meantime, they can laugh at the angry, orange president for complaining about it.
Freeloader? Better check your sources. The Swiss must contribute more than most other nations to their national defense. They are quite serious about it. Most of the male population has reservist status and is armed. Any invader would face some trained and prepared guerrilla warfare nation.
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Had a holiday in Switzerland in the early 2000s mainly to familarise the family for an later assignment when we spent 5 years there. For a couple of weeks we stayed in Nax at about 2000mtrs in the valley that runs along with the Rhone in Valais. One afternoon we were sitting on the deck drinking too much wine again and enjoying the amazing views. There is a deafening roar and out of the valley rises an F18 with 3 jet trainers in formation trail. Right in front of us they level out, then an even bigger deafening roar and the F18 disappears down the valley, the three trainers do a tight U turn in the valley and blast off in the other direction. Best personal airshow ever 
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It’s a fact that Swiss defense spending as a proportion of the GDP is much more robust than most of its European neighbors, and I admire the country’s high gun ownership rate. 30 F/A-18C is not bad for a small country, assuming proper avionics upgrades and training. The bankers’ hours on alert response is embarrassing, but I understand the budget arguments given the logistics and geography. That said, those are pretty tired Hornets, and the Swiss really do need a modernization plan imo. I would probably buy 12-18 F-35 and transition some Hornets to non-flying spares and/or adversary aircraft. Not cheap, but it’s a force multiplier with stealth technologies and self-escort/strike capabilities. It’s biggest weaknesses are speed and range which isn’t really a problem in Switzerland.
The F-35 might be a bit of overkill for just some armed air-to-air surveillance role. Plus they don't want to network with everybody else. Something less fancy will do. They have to ask their voters about budgeting the next fighter and swiss people have said no before even to the "cheap" Gripen.
They have to ask their voters about budgeting the next fighter and swiss people have said no before even to the "cheap" Gripen.
As has already been said, the Swiss traditionally are very pro-defence and so I would imagine any future plan to buy new fighters would pass.
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What a dumb comment! How about the Swiss contribute to the defense of the continent like other Western European nations do? Y’all Euros enjoy the American umbrella over your heads, maybe you could pitch in just a little bit... Or do all those mountains and being a “neutral country” keep you safe? FFS!