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Lossiemouth Upgrades

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Lossiemouth Upgrades

Old 15th Nov 2019, 14:42
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Lossiemouth Upgrades

Strange timing? one would have thought this should have been done and completed in time for the first ones arrival, not just starting when it is nearly on its way, or am I missing something?

The project will prepare the base for the arrival of nine P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, the first of which is expected to be delivered in February 2020.
Mott MacDonald will provide design and support services throughout the detailed design, construction, testing and commissioning phases of the project.
The company was awarded the contract by VolkerFitzpatrick.The scope of works includes the renewal of the main and secondary runways and the construction of a new aircraft servicing platform for the P-8As. Also included are associated infrastructure works including lighting, drainage and communications.

Mott MacDonald project manager Simon Nesbitt said: “We are delighted to have been awarded the design contract and will ensure that minimal disruption is caused at RAF Lossiemouth during the works. Mott MacDonald offer the advantage of a local office with previous project experience at RAF Lossiemouth coupled with group-wide expertise in the defence sector as well as airport pavements and associated infrastructure.
”Mott MacDonald said that it will work closely with VolkerFitzpatrick, the Defence Infrastructure Organisation, RAF Lossiemouth, the local community and other stakeholders to ensure that the works are designed and constructed to minimise the impact to everyday station operations and the local community.

The project is due for completion in spring 2021.RAF Lossiemouth is home to four fast-jet squadrons flying the Typhoon and it has been some time since it has regularly operated a larger aircraft such as the P-8A Poseidon. The resurfacing works is one of many improvements being made to future-proof the base for years to come.

The project forms part of the £500m RAF Lossiemouth Development Programme (LDP). Other improvements to follow include accommodation for personnel, a new air traffic control tower, upgrades to drainage and electrical supplies and upgraded facilities for IX (Bomber) Squadron, which moved to the base this year.


https://www.theconstructionindex.co....mouth-contract
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 15:35
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Surely a waste of money anyway. When Scotland goes Independent we wouldn't want our frontline assets in a foreign country? The aircraft would be relocated in England. As presumably the naval bases.
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 23:21
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There's a base near SWAPS inner and outer available....
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 23:52
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They have also spent the last few weeks resurfacing the runway at Kinloss at great expense. This is to allow the P8s to operate out of there for a few weeks early next year. Great planning........
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 01:17
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cessnapete,
We've had our frontline assets in foreign countries before when facing a threat. RAF Germany worked fine, if Scotland (and Wales) went independent then RAF Scotland (RAF Wales) would work just as well.
There's no need to move everything back to an independent little England for it to work.
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 08:54
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HAS59

You seem to forget, the reason RAFG existed was to face a very real threat. Some to provide Air Defence and some to get them in range of their targets in the East.

If Scotland leaves the UK it would be a totally different situation. We would have little reason to maintain our Front Line forces in Scotland.

Give them the Hawk T1 fleet and let them get on with it. I'm sure that the European Army will defend them. That is of course if Scotland were ever accepted into the EU. I believe their economics are rather suspect!
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 09:18
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It would be interesting to see the divorce bill that Scotland would have to pay lol
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 10:13
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They won't pay - after all they have the excellent example of the current UK PM threatening to just walk away from obligations in a political divorce.
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 12:09
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Originally Posted by XA290 View Post
They have also spent the last few weeks resurfacing the runway at Kinloss at great expense. This is to allow the P8s to operate out of there for a few weeks early next year. Great planning........

Hadn't looked at Kinloss on ZoomEarth for a while; I see it's acquired a 'spare' runway parallel to and north of the main runway.
ZoomEarth shows a more recent picture of Lossie than GE with the building work north side clearly visible; on GE there's nothing there.
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 13:40
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
Hadn't looked at Kinloss on ZoomEarth for a while; I see it's acquired a 'spare' runway parallel to and north of the main runway
Emergency runway on the parallel taxiway. Came in as a component of ASM programme in the mid 1980s.

YS
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 17:21
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Dominator2
If you think that we are not facing a very real threat from the North and East then you clearly have not been paying attention.
The reason for the RAF to have a base so far north is to be nearer to the Greenland-Iceland Faeroe Gaps.
The ability to have QRA North nearer to where a great deal of 'trade' is practiced may also be noteworthy.
These are not just 'Our' Front-line Forces, but are a part of NATO's overall force distribution.

By parking everything in just a handful of English bases is just not seeing the bigger picture.

(the last line in your previous comment was an attempt at mirth wasn't it?)
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 19:40
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In fact the threat from up north is so serious, Keflavik might get some temporary residents in the near future a a guess
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 20:30
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One major benefit is that Lossie will in the future be able to take Voyager - something that currently means every large Lossie Sqn move has to be done through Brize or occasionally Prestwick. This inevitably means a very long journey for the guys and gals after long flights when landing in the U.K. For those that are already far from home, every little bit of morale helps, and this has been an issue for some time.

Yes, Voyager has been in a few times before, but it either has to be towed at walking pace around the airfield (blacking the Q runway in the meantime) and pushed back onto the threshold to start, or has to be flown by an instructor because there is no suitable turnpad and anyway, the regs changed so the runway’s now too narrow for a 180 turn.
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 08:47
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When FSTA boiled down to A330 or B767, the RAF was assured that the dimensions of the A330 "...wouldn't be a significant limitation".

Brize to RAF Wattisham was bad enough by MT, but Brize to Lossie?
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 09:03
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Brize to Bruggen at least once, after the boys had flown over Bruggen on their way back from Northern Watch...
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 09:17
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BEags it depends what you mean by "significant limitation" it is a bit of an open ended statement. Tristar policy was generally main base so nothing new there.
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 10:52
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Originally Posted by vascodegama View Post
BEags it depends what you mean by "significant limitation" it is a bit of an open ended statement. Tristar policy was generally main base so nothing new there.
But back then the VC10 was also available - it's only since the Voyager has replaced both TriStar and VC10 that the problem has become more significant, although it might have been less so with the 767, perhaps? Not that the 767 on offer would have been anything as like as good a tanker though - rather the point of FSTA!

Of course those nice 1Gp AARCs could often be persuaded to sanction a returning VC10K to drop off the 'role support personnel' on a trail at their own base, fuel permitting. With the added benefit of no HMRC needed back at Brize.

Luftwaffe mates who've flown from Cologne to the Land of Sand in the back of an A400M tell me that the only benefit is that at least it isn't as slow as the Transall was.
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 20:30
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Originally Posted by Dominator2 View Post
HAS59

You seem to forget, the reason RAFG existed was to face a very real threat. Some to provide Air Defence and some to get them in range of their targets in the East.

If Scotland leaves the UK it would be a totally different situation. We would have little reason to maintain our Front Line forces in Scotland.

Give them the Hawk T1 fleet and let them get on with it. I'm sure that the European Army will defend them. That is of course if Scotland were ever accepted into the EU. I believe their economics are rather suspect!
Scotland will not be leaving the UK. The union of England and Scotland is called Great Britain (Article 1, Act of Union, 1707). The term United Kingdom comes from the union of Great Britain and Ireland in 1800, since the partition of Ireland in 1922 the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Upon England gaining its independence from Scotland, the latter will qualify for circa 10% of the joint assets that have accrued in the 300 or so years the Union has persisted. This will include Defence assets. My question at times like this is, how would an independent England propose to defend itself from a real and growing threat from the north? QRA from Leeming is not very Q. In reality Lossie will continue to operate, as will Kinloss, Leuchars, Macrihanish, Tain, Saxa Vord, Faslane and Coulport, plus the shedloads of low flying areas on land and out over Scottish Coastal waters.

There will be either joint operating agreements or rental / leasing arrangements in place. Re NATO, how would one propose the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation operates without one of the most strategic land areas in the north Atlantic?

Re the EU, plenty of European partners have already indicated a smooth passage for an independent Scotland to rejoin as a successor state of a current member state. In reality, if Brexit goes ahead, the Westminster government is facing a nightmare scenario of IndyRef2 securing independence for Scotland and rejoining the EU fairly quickly. English and Welsh Companies then wishing to trade in the EU with no barriers would then relocate to Scotland. Oh, and for good measure, a border poll in Ireland would result in THAT country being reunited. One really should be careful what one wishes for.
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 21:56
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Good dit
You forgot to mention the Wales and Berwick Act 1746 in the union. As far as Wales goes ... it lasted until the Welsh Language Act in 1967.
As for my awkward little hometown (Berwick upon Tweed) the act was still in force until 1978 when Berwick was placed in England (for now as we say)
A hard border from Berwick to Carlisle would be a nightmare to set up and control. I suspect a return of Reiving would ensue.

You hit the nail squarely on the head with your post though.
I'm pretty sure that the RAF/Army/Navy will be in Scotland, whatever the politics, it just makes good military sense.
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 22:47
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Originally Posted by HAS59 View Post
alwayslookingup
Good dit
You forgot to mention the Wales and Berwick Act 1746 in the union. As far as Wales goes ... it lasted until the Welsh Language Act in 1967.
As for my awkward little hometown (Berwick upon Tweed) the act was still in force until 1978 when Berwick was placed in England (for now as we say)
A hard border from Berwick to Carlisle would be a nightmare to set up and control. I suspect a return of Reiving would ensue.

You hit the nail squarely on the head with your post though.
I'm pretty sure that the RAF/Army/Navy will be in Scotland, whatever the politics, it just makes good military sense.
Thanks. While I support Scotland being Independent and in full control of our resources, I also realise that in the modern world, to prosper we would need to be in any number of political, economic and military alliances. That's the way it is, which is why the current move to exit the EU is such insanity. We have a large potential enemy in the name of a certain ex KGB Colonel so must work together to ensure he doesn't prevail. And, to return to the OP, Lossie will have a large part to play in that strategy!!
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