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'Non-Traditional' Aircrew

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'Non-Traditional' Aircrew

Old 20th Oct 2019, 18:31
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Guardamar
Posts: 31
Oh, Wazza Loadie, d'you need a saucer of milk? Are you talking when MAMS were MAMS, or after everyone joined in? In my day, some 38 years ago, it was Union Flag on shoulder and name and UKMAMS on front name patch
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 12:59
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: DAVER
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet View Post
Sharpie

The Air Steward and the later Cabin Crew badge is nothing like RAF Pilot Flying Badges - a LOT smaller, the wings are a different shape, it has the monogram ‘AS’ or ‘CC’ and they are worn on the sleeve (or they should be). It is only weak leadership on the shiney 10 (ie. your old fleet), Tristar, 125, 146 and now Voyager that has allowed them to, outside of the AP1358 Dress Regs, wear them on their left breast of their FACS, flying suits or cold weather jackets. It is a Trade badge and should be worn on the right sleeve like the picture that Nutty kindly shared.
I bet you’re the kind of guy that would describe himself as “Senior Flight Lieutenant”
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 13:24
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Wings on a hostie is like lipstick on a pig.. it is what it is, no matter how they dress it up.
Still, it must be a good moral booster for service retention and induction, a bit like allowing pilots to buy a leather jacket and wear it.
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 15:32
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Urcal (Almeria)
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NutLoose #23 I've nothing against leather jackets -- provided that they are finished in Disruptive Pattern Camouflage !
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 17:27
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Baston
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One of my hobbies is military history, British Army, Victorian to Great War period, and specialising in dress/clothing and the badges attached.
One theme recurs: the regulations often follow practice, rather than the converse.
I prefer the rules to be obeyed in our armed services, but if there is sufficiently good [or bad] reason to diverge from them, perhaps the regs might change.

Not that I have a dog in the fight as a retired weather guesser.
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 19:48
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by Ascoteer View Post


I bet you’re the kind of guy that would describe himself as “Senior Flight Lieutenant”
Touched a nerve, did I?
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 20:04
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Baston
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
I can see it now, "we decided to take the crown orf Ma'am as we didn't want to be left with obsolete stock when one kicks orf"
The services badges with Queen Victoria's crown were still being worn by some veterans in the Great War. Mostly so highly polished that they were nearly featureless.
]the badges, not the veterans].
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 22:04
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wales
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
I always thought Lex Brown was a bit non-traditional!

CG
Ah, good old Lex - not heard or seen his name in print this century.
Mad as a box of frogs but an essential part of Wessex/Puma banter mid 1970's SHDNI.
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 22:13
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 473
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Wings on a hostie is like lipstick on a pig..
”Hostie”, “Air Hostess”, “Stewardess” etc are inappropriate terms that carry the implication that such personnel are onboard mainly for the delivery of “hospitality”.

The reality is contrary to this misconception. The primary duties of Cabin Crew are safety-critical and they deserve to be respected for their role. Just off the top of my head I can think of the following competencies:

Immediate Care (First Aid)
Abnormal and Emergency procedures, including -
  • Firefighting onboard aircraft
  • Ditching / Forced Landing
  • Emergency Evacuation
  • Decompression
  • Operation of all Emergency Equipment
  • Pilot incapacitation
Aviation Security
CRM
Human Performance
SMS
Fatigue Management
Survival and Rescue (Land and Sea)

Arguably, Cabin Crew are more directly involved in the operation of aircraft than some of the other trades. Perhaps Cabin Crew ought to be brought into the scope of this review and be awarded an equivalent ‘proper’ brevet?
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 23:02
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
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The VC10K didn't originally carry 'passengers', they were referred to as 'role support personnel'. We didn't have established ALMs or 'cabin crew' to look after them but would take it in turns to do so - as it usually meant a trip to somewhere nice.

When acting as 'cabin supervisor', the nickname for such a task was 'Trolley Tart'. That came from (rather a memorable ) time with a ba TriStar crew in Bermuda, one of whom (a very classy young lady) told us that her parents used to hold quite a few posh cockers Ps at which her father would introduce her to his guests as "My daughter the Trolley Tart". She didn't mind at all!

RAF Cabin Crew do indeed deserve more respect than is often forthcoming. Their tasks and responsibilities extend far beyond handing out those delightful white boxes.

Last edited by BEagle; 21st Oct 2019 at 23:14.
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Old 22nd Oct 2019, 02:56
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Asia Pacific
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An explanation of how the term 'trolley tart' originated, immediately followed by a statement of 'RAF Cabin Crew do indeed deserve more respect than is often forthcoming' is a strange juxtaposition, but I guess its all contextualised by a history lesson.

Tell me, who loaded the catering? was it coolies, or chai walla's? or did it depend on which pink part of the map you were sipping G&T's in?
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Old 22nd Oct 2019, 03:04
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Asia Pacific
Age: 48
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Brain - I am assuming that is a fishing expedition?
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Old 22nd Oct 2019, 06:43
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
The VC10K didn't originally carry 'passengers', they were referred to as 'role support personnel'. We didn't have established ALMs or 'cabin crew' to look after them but would take it in turns to do so - as it usually meant a trip to somewhere nice.

When acting as 'cabin supervisor', the nickname for such a task was 'Trolley Tart'. That came from (rather a memorable ) time with a ba TriStar crew in Bermuda, one of whom (a very classy young lady) told us that her parents used to hold quite a few posh cockers Ps at which her father would introduce her to his guests as "My daughter the Trolley Tart". She didn't mind at all!

RAF Cabin Crew do indeed deserve more respect than is often forthcoming. Their tasks and responsibilities extend far beyond handing out those delightful white boxes.
Always thought the title was 'Trolley Dollys'; never heard of 'Trolley Tarts' which to me seems a derogatory term.
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Old 22nd Oct 2019, 08:24
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
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At Brize, VC10K catering was delivered to the aircraft by 'In-flight' and checked by the Cabin Supervisor. Quite often away from base the in-flight rations were bought in a local supermarket, then loaded by the Cabin Supervisor - who would also do the cooking. Most of us took turns in doing so.
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Old 22nd Oct 2019, 15:16
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
Always thought the title was 'Trolley Dollys'; never heard of 'Trolley Tarts' which to me seems a derogatory term.
Plus Spoons and Coffee Jockeys on the VC10's
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Old 22nd Oct 2019, 18:03
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lechlade, Glos.UK
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
Always thought the title was 'Trolley Dollys'; never heard of 'Trolley Tarts' which to me seems a derogatory term.
Chevron, have you never flown with elderly BA Pursers who were called Wagon Dragons?
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Old 22nd Oct 2019, 21:02
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Baston
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as we are well into a digression, why is the wagon always between me and the khazi when I need relief, and the dragons keep me waiting, standing like a twerp, until we hit turbulence and then its "seat belts on"?
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Old 23rd Oct 2019, 01:04
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
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Cabin Crew Safety Brief Oz Style...
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Old 24th Oct 2019, 14:04
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: middle earth
Posts: 8
Thumbs up NOT a Flying Badge

Originally Posted by Lima Juliet View Post
BEagle



I would agree if the Cabin Crew wings were worn in the correct place - ie. on the right hand sleeve. The left chest/breast is reserved for RAF Flying Badges and Medals - that is all. The Cabin Crew badge is not a de facto Flying Badge (ie. it is not listed in QR 206) and so should not be worn on the left breast/chest. It’s a pretty simple rule, really.

Agreed LimaJuliet,

Its not a Flying Badge IAW AP1358 therefore CANNOT be worn on left breast. A name badge, fine- with CC "trade qualification badge" ( as per AP1358) on right arm. In addition QR206 doesn't recognise it as a Flying Badge either.

It's a clever flout of the dress regulations in the name of "crew cohesion" - clever play by CC branch to make people believe they have been awarded a Flying badge.

In addition- pretty sure RLC Dispatchers wear their Dispatchers badge on right arm..

Not sure what's next, the trade "Create" a Flying Badge with "CC" in middle? no worres- go to Cranwell and complete a CFS approved course of flying training then. Othersie move it to the right arm of FACS where there's a velcro portion already there for it.
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Old 24th Oct 2019, 18:05
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
Posts: 0
You all sound like Hells Angels and other dumb MC clubs, whining about who can wear what and where
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