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'Non-Traditional' Aircrew

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'Non-Traditional' Aircrew

Old 17th Oct 2019, 09:02
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Question 'Non-Traditional' Aircrew

I have heard on the rumour vine (reliable source) that there is imminently to be a change to the Brevets/Flying Badges (whichever way you want to call it) that so called non-traditional aircrew / airborne specialists will be awarded. E.G.: FC / IA / AT etc...

I'm told that they are getting rid of the trade specific half wings and replacing it with a new badge for all. Not 100% sure what it will be but expected to be similar to the WSO/WSOP RAF half wing but without the crown. I would imagine grandfather rights to the old badges will remain for those who earned them.

Apparently, it was provisionally approved (not sure if at Air Force Board or with Monarch) 2 weeks ago but has not yet been formally announced or issued.

Does anyone else know anything about this or heard similar?
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Old 17th Oct 2019, 20:13
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Yes and please wait out...
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Old 18th Oct 2019, 16:24
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Is this no just another example of 'dumbing down' ? Should an air steward wear the same wings as single seat fighter pilot. Just asking.

Last edited by sharpend; 20th Oct 2019 at 20:59.
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Old 18th Oct 2019, 18:17
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I can see it now, "we decided to take the crown orf Ma'am as we didn't want to be left with obsolete stock when one kicks orf"
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Old 18th Oct 2019, 18:21
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Isn't she wearing one?





RAF | The Apprenticeship Guide
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Old 18th Oct 2019, 19:03
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MRAF - your rumour summary is absolutely correct noting it is a flying badge and not a brevet.

Sharpend - pilots wings are and always will be for pilots only. Everyone else will have a single wing with a crown for WSO’s/WSOp’s and no crown for the rest.
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Old 18th Oct 2019, 19:10
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Sharpie

The Air Steward and the later Cabin Crew badge is nothing like RAF Pilot Flying Badges - a LOT smaller, the wings are a different shape, it has the monogram ‘AS’ or ‘CC’ and they are worn on the sleeve (or they should be). It is only weak leadership on the shiney 10 (ie. your old fleet), Tristar, 125, 146 and now Voyager that has allowed them to, outside of the AP1358 Dress Regs, wear them on their left breast of their FACS, flying suits or cold weather jackets. It is a Trade badge and should be worn on the right sleeve like the picture that Nutty kindly shared.

This picture from eBay gives you an idea of the tiny size of the badge.

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Old 19th Oct 2019, 08:41
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet View Post
Sharpie

The Air Steward and the later Cabin Crew badge is nothing like RAF Pilot Flying Badges - a LOT smaller, the wings are a different shape, it has the monogram ‘AS’ or ‘CC’ and they are worn on the sleeve (or they should be). It is only weak leadership on the shiney 10 (ie. your old fleet), Tristar, 125, 146 and now Voyager that has allowed them to, outside of the AP1358 Dress Regs, wear them on their left breast of their FACS, flying suits or cold weather jackets. It is a Trade badge and should be worn on the right sleeve like the picture that Nutty kindly shared.

This picture from eBay gives you an idea of the tiny size of the badge.

i assume every time you've seen someone incorrectly dressed you've stopped, informed them of their error, and given them a time to report back to you correctly dressed.
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Old 19th Oct 2019, 09:59
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Originally Posted by alfred_the_great View Post


i assume every time you've seen someone incorrectly dressed you've stopped, informed them of their error, and given them a time to report back to you correctly dressed.
yawn. SOP PPRuNe.

Squabbling about this stuff when the RAF struggle to effectively man the front line. Witness the posts on the back end of the XX204 from Typhoon pilot and Bob Viking.

Or look at the well publicised issues with A400 or E-3 serviceability; or the output of the CRUs or MFTS.

There are better, more important things to talk about!

Seriously, ladies. Handbags at dawn!

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Old 19th Oct 2019, 11:59
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Originally Posted by alfred_the_great View Post
i assume every time you've seen someone incorrectly dressed you've stopped, informed them of their error, and given them a time to report back to you correctly dressed.
Yup, I even pulled up a Gp Capt this week for wearing his Field Service Cap incorrectly - a quiet word, Sir, the badge goes upwards, not downwards...
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Old 19th Oct 2019, 12:46
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Originally Posted by flighthappens View Post
There are better, more important things to talk about!

Seriously, ladies. Handbags at dawn!


So discipline doesn't matter any more in the modern military?
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Old 19th Oct 2019, 13:24
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I always thought Lex Brown was a bit non-traditional!

CG
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Old 19th Oct 2019, 14:06
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Flying in an RAF Voyager a few weeks ago, I think that it was entirely appropriate for the cabin crew member to have been wearing the standard squadron name badge on his flying suit, including his Air Steward mini-wings.

Which he wore with considerable pride - and why ever not?

Whoever worries about such things?
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Old 19th Oct 2019, 17:19
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BEagle

Which he wore with considerable pride - and why ever not?
I would agree if the Cabin Crew wings were worn in the correct place - ie. on the right hand sleeve. The left chest/breast is reserved for RAF Flying Badges and Medals - that is all. The Cabin Crew badge is not a de facto Flying Badge (ie. it is not listed in QR 206) and so should not be worn on the left breast/chest. It’s a pretty simple rule, really.
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Old 19th Oct 2019, 23:43
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Medal ribbons are never worn on flying suits! 'Op' badges were once worn on the upper shoulder on some squadrons once the wearer had achieved CR status and others wore national flags. Generic aircraft badges were once quite popular, as were '10 bear' badges. Eventually some guidance appeared, requiring uniformity of squadron flying suits and if I recall correctly, limited the number of badges to one per shoulder.

'Squadron' name badges with role specialisation engender squadron spirit and look smart - long may they continue!
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Old 20th Oct 2019, 02:21
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Unless of course you were MAMS when you would wear a multitude of badges, wherever you wanted on your coveralls - I'll get me coat
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Old 20th Oct 2019, 03:20
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I used to wear the hammer and sickle on my overalls way back in the 70's and 80's and no one said a word.
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Old 20th Oct 2019, 09:07
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BEagle

I think you are missing the point old bean. Of course you would never wear medal ribbons on your FACS or flying suit, but you do tend to wear the normal badges in the correct places where they appear on other forms of uniform - flying badges on your left chest/breast are a classic example where some sqns wear them on their own with a name badge on the other side, and others in a combined name/flying-badge badge. The Cabin Crew should be doing something similar - a name badge on their chest with the separate cabin crew badge on their sleeve. There is no intent to damage sqn spirit and the wearing of a sqn badge is perfectly fine by all.

On liney’s overalls, I don’t believe that it is a formal Dress standard? So effectively it is managed locally, but the flying gear is No 14 Dress as laid down in AP1358 Ch 6.
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Old 20th Oct 2019, 10:10
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The Cabin Crew should be doing something similar - a name badge on their chest with the separate cabin crew badge on their sleeve.
Perhaps - but apart from you, does anyone really give a $hit?
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Old 20th Oct 2019, 11:06
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Perhaps - but apart from you, does anyone really give a $hit?
It seems your fellow VC-10 mate does as he asked the original question?
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