Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Tempest reborn ?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Tempest reborn ?

Old 10th Sep 2019, 14:30
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 0
Tempest reborn ?

It is reported that Italy will join a consortium headed by Britain to build a new advanced fighter. Named the Tempest, the aircraft will feature stealth technology, [email protected] weapons and drone wingmen. The aircraft is expected to fly in 2035. Those collaborating are BAE Systems, Rolls Royce, MBDA and Leonardo.

Source: Business section of the D. Tel. 10th inst.
Capt Kremmen is offline  
Old 10th Sep 2019, 16:21
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Leicestershire, England
Posts: 1,170
Ahem...

UK unveils new next generation fighter jet, the 'Tempest'

From March, this year...

-RP
Rhino power is offline  
Old 10th Sep 2019, 17:49
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 0
Ahem ! Italy is the news.
Capt Kremmen is offline  
Old 10th Sep 2019, 20:57
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: French Alps
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by Capt Kremmen View Post
Ahem ! Italy is the news.
Italy doing military aviation business with a third country ?
Not sure the US would allow that...
Fly Aiprt is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 08:21
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,500
Fly Aiprt,


What on earth has it to do with the US?

Ever heard of Tornado, AMX, Typhoon, NH90 etc etc etc...
pr00ne is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 08:31
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: French Alps
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
Fly Aiprt,


What on earth has it to do with the US?

Ever heard of Tornado, AMX, Typhoon, NH90 etc etc etc...
Those aircraft were developed in the EU, the Tornado project being launched while the UK was applying for accession.
When - and if - Britain leaves the EU, not sure the US will be pleased to see cooperation with some EU country continue.
Fly Aiprt is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 09:03
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 925
Those aircraft were developed in the EU, the Tornado project being launched while the UK was applying for accession.
When - and if - Britain leaves the EU, not sure the US will be pleased to see cooperation with some EU country continue.
What a load of guff. Are you suggesting the likes of BAE won't be able to work with European companies?? That'll screw the Gripen programme, not to mention Typhoon etc etc. Also, what of the F35? Plenty of European workshare in that.
dead_pan is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 09:12
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: French Alps
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
What a load of guff.
Thanks for that sir.
I'm suggesting getting out of the EU might change lots of things for the UK, but if your expertise makes you think otherwise, you are most welcome, my friend.

Fly Aiprt is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 10:50
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 925
getting out of the EU might change lots of things for the UK
I don't doubt it. Have to say I've never heard this angle though.
dead_pan is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 11:34
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 578
Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
Those aircraft were developed in the EU, the Tornado project being launched while the UK was applying for accession.
When - and if - Britain leaves the EU, not sure the US will be pleased to see cooperation with some EU country continue.
No, those aircraft were all developed long before the EU became an entity.
Harley Quinn is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 11:42
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 3,021
problem is market - Uk will buy ?120? italy ?120?

Not many to go for a zillion dollar development programme
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 12:08
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: French Alps
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
No, those aircraft were all developed long before the EU became an entity.
If it pleases you to say that European Communities and the EU are not the same entity because the name evolved and there was a new treaty in 1993, by all means, be my guest ;-)
Fly Aiprt is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 13:05
  #13 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 11,394
It’s in competition with the proposed Franco-German fighter. The problem with that consortium for other nations is that after French and German industries take airframe, engine, radar, software etc there is little they will be able to get in the way of work if they join.

Team Tempest involves BAe and RR, but also Saab and Leonardo. I’m assuming Saab will get a large share of airframe work and Leonardo will lead on radar and other sensors, MBDA on weapons etc. Plenty of other workshare available, and it might even get a buy in from the Japanese.

As far as sales go, assuming care is taken over ITAR, there are plenty of potential customers in the ME and Far East etc.
ORAC is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 14:06
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 3,021
who will also have the option of buying the French/German 'plane

The Germans are rubbish at selling but the French??? they'll run rings around the It-UK as they always do
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 14:10
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,916
Asturias

🇫🇷 will run rings around 🇬🇧 🇮🇹? Remind me how many overseas sales there are for Rafale and Typhoon respectively?

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 15:53
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: London
Posts: 402
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Itís in competition with the proposed Franco-German fighter. The problem with that consortium for other nations is that after French and German industries take airframe, engine, radar, software etc there is little they will be able to get in the way of work if they join.

Team Tempest involves BAe and RR, but also Saab and Leonardo. Iím assuming Saab will get a large share of airframe work and Leonardo will lead on radar and other sensors, MBDA on weapons etc. Plenty of other workshare available, and it might even get a buy in from the Japanese.

As far as sales go, assuming care is taken over ITAR, there are plenty of potential customers in the ME and Far East etc.
Sweden have not yet joined Tempest in the sense you suggest. They are cooperating with the UK on developing the technologies of the Combat Air Strategy with a view to future Gripen upgrades. Government will receive report in Autumn 2020 and then decide if joining Tempest Project or not.
Mil-26Man is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2019, 18:11
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: one side of la Manche
Posts: 151
Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
���� will run rings around ���� ����? Remind me how many overseas sales there are for Rafale and Typhoon respectively?

BV
With pleasure....
Typhoon
Germany 130
Italy 90
Spain 61
UK 160
Austria - 15
Kuwait - 28
Oman - 12
Qatar - 24
Saudi - 72
Total 692 of which 151 are 'overseas'

Rafale
France 180
Egypt - 24
India - 36
Qatar - 36
Total 276 of which 96 are overseas

Regards
Batco

Last edited by BATCO; 2nd Oct 2019 at 18:49.
BATCO is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2019, 18:19
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,916
BATCO

If youíre trying to make Typhoon look bad would you mind adding on the initial sales to the four partner nations to the first list and then the French Rafale purchase to the lower list?

That in itself paints a picture.

Also, please remind us how the India deal is progressing.

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2019, 18:41
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 2,012
It wasn't that long ago that the number of Typhoons delivered to the RAF alone outnumbered the entire production run of Rafales delivered worldwide.

Dassault would probably be content to achieve a 3:1 ratio when it comes to Typhoon to Rafale sales. Not sure they will ever achieve it.
Just This Once... is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2019, 19:10
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 364
Some time ago, according to an email news service run by the British Embassy in Tokyo, Britain and Japan signed a treaty to explore options for a joint programme for a new jet. I wonder if that might end up aligning with this Tempest II programme?
msbbarratt is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.