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45 Squadron Phenom 100 in LFA 14?

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45 Squadron Phenom 100 in LFA 14?

Old 27th Aug 2019, 21:43
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45 Squadron Phenom 100 in LFA 14?

This should maybe go in the spotters section, but;

Heard something early this morning (00:15 ish), flying low (2000 ft or less), relatively slow & heading East up the Great Glen, It sounded very much like something from the "Very Light Jet" category. First thought was a GA or commercial flight, but this low, in this area & in darkness just doesn't happen, hence wondering if it was an RAF Phenom 100.

I've had a look at the low flying schedules & no mention of anything - any ideas?
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 21:57
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Originally Posted by Thrust Augmentation View Post
This should maybe go in the spotters section, but;

Heard something early this morning (00:15 ish), flying low (2000 ft or less), relatively slow & heading East up the Great Glen, It sounded very much like something from the "Very Light Jet" category. First thought was a GA or commercial flight, but this low, in this area & in darkness just doesn't happen, hence wondering if it was an RAF Phenom 100.

I've had a look at the low flying schedules & no mention of anything - any ideas?
Given that it was the night after a public holiday (in England, anyway) and well after the cut-off time for low flying training, you can be assured that it was not a Phenom. Also, Im no multi-engine expert but Id be very surprised indeed if there was any night low flying training carried out except on the front-line types. Equipping the Phenom with a NVG-compatible cockpit would be a ridiculous waste of money...

The combination of slow and jet makes me suspect that your height estimation is awry. Its very hard to judge distance from sound alone, especially if its otherwise quiet and terrain effects are involved (both seem likely in that part of the world).
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 22:21
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Only civvy aircraft visible around there at that time was Scottish Ambulance Service EC145 G-SASS departing the Fort William area around midnight; by 0015 it was down Ballachulish way returning to Glasgow. Can't see anything mil.
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 22:32
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Originally Posted by Easy Street View Post


Given that it was the night after a public holiday (in England, anyway) and well after the cut-off time for low flying training, you can be assured that it was not a Phenom. Also, Im no multi-engine expert but Id be very surprised indeed if there was any night low flying training carried out except on the front-line types. Equipping the Phenom with a NVG-compatible cockpit would be a ridiculous waste of money...

The combination of slow and jet makes me suspect that your height estimation is awry. Its very hard to judge distance from sound alone, especially if its otherwise quiet and terrain effects are involved (both seem likely in that part of the world).
Thought it was a long shot...

While It's completely possible that the estimation could be wrong, I've got my doubts it's that far off - been eyeballing & lugging mil & civi flights every day for the last 40 plus years in an area with busy commercial air routes up top & an LFA below that sees plenty of GA when it's not operating. 100% a light jet at a relatively low altitude, but don't understand how it could be civi.

Most of the higher hills around hear top out at around 2000ft & it's pretty easy to tell if an aircraft is "in" the Glen or not.
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 22:39
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
Only civvy aircraft visible around there at that time was Scottish Ambulance Service EC145 G-SASS departing the Fort William area around midnight
treadigraph - Did hear the Air Ambulance slightly earlier - thanks though.

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Old 28th Aug 2019, 00:03
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A couple of B-2's flew into RAF Fairford early today, it could have been one of them.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 10:39
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Originally Posted by Navy_Adversary View Post
A couple of B-2's flew into RAF Fairford early today, it could have been one of them.
Never seen or heard a B-2 - guess stealth works pretty well......

This sounded more like an APU with wings, the only things that I've ever heard anything like it have been the Cirrus Vision SF50 & just, maybe light (very) trainers.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 11:51
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US C-130 and Ospreys have been operating around the Higlands at night recently - might be of the MV-22s
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:44
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Only mil thing in the logs that was up around that time was a USAF KC-135R at FL240, so unlikely to have been that. Chances are you heard something mil that wasn't broadcasting its callsign, or it was civvy.

EDIT - could it have been a large drone if it had an APU-like sound? Not fully up to scratch on my drones, but the highlands sound like a good exercise location.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 11:51
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Well thanks for the replies!

Stu666 - nope, not a KC-135R. I did consider drones, but pretty sure it wasn't a prop drone - Taranis did cross my mind though, but on the wild assumption that it would sound a bit like a Hawk being fitted with an Adour I ruled that out, although as it's LO it may also be noticeably quieter than a Hawk.

DaveF68 - no, not a C-130. The MV-22 suggestion is interesting, I've never seen one flying, so not familiar with the sound. I didn't hear it as it approached, just as it was more or less directly overhead & then heading away - would an MV-22 sound like a turbofan aircraft from behind when in full forward flight (no blade noise) or would it sound more like a Turboprop?

To elaborate, whatever it was flew straight & level right up the middle of The Great Glen, West to East / Fort William headed in the Inverness direction. Little chance of there being any confusion with commercial traffic & this flies almost exclusively South to North or vice versa heading / returning for the US. Light commercial or GA at night is more or less a non event in the area, the occasional SAA King Air at medium altitude or Biz-Jet high altitude, more or less only Mil, SAA EC135 or SAR after dark.

If it was military, Lossiemouth would seem to be the most likely destination (maybe), but no unusual movements noted on Fightercontrol
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 15:01
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...lands-49482631
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 15:04
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Originally Posted by Davef68 View Post
US C-130 and Ospreys have been operating around the Higlands at night recently - might be of the MV-22s
An American MC-130 'STRIX48' is presently south through County Durham at FL150 on it's way back to Mildenhall but it's track on virtual radar starts further north at Dunkeld and may well have followed the A9 south from the direction of the Great Glen or the general Highlands area ?
These STRIX flights often route , generally after dark , across Linton and into the Yorkshire Dales and the Lake District beyond often off the east coast of Scotland or up to Spadeadam but have become more frequent of late .
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 21:01
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I've had a good listen to some mach loop MV-22 passes & figure that is what it must have been - seems to sound like a helo from the front & a jet from the back.


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