Red Arrows - worth the effort now?
10/10 for a remarkably assertive stance from a position of no authority, insight or understanding - but 1/10 for accuracy.
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In addition, if you were to survey most serving members of the RAF I would imagine that 99.5% did not join the RAF because of the Reds. I for one joined because a Chinook landed outside my Air Cadet Sqn (before I even understood that the air cadets existed). The Reds although great to watch holds no allure for this guy, even as a kid.
I would suggest that most young boys seeing a FJ with 'bombs' and 'guns' or a Helicopter fast roping or offloading 30 full tolled up soldiers has as much, if not more draw for your average little boy. That is certainly the vibe I get from all little boys I have met.
Just my opinion and not meant to cause nasty arguments or name calling.
Last edited by heights good; 2nd Dec 2019 at 21:19.
Well, at the museum that I volunteer at, one of our best sellers is the Corgi "Syncho Pair". If that can be considered a reasonable measure of the "Reds effect" on impressionable youngsters, then they are having the desired effect.
Just this once, and langleybaston,
Go read Hansard, read defence white papers, read treasury expense reports, where it is all recorded as fact.
Go read Hansard, read defence white papers, read treasury expense reports, where it is all recorded as fact.
I just watched a C5 fly-on-the-wall documentary about the Household Cavalry.
Huge amount of money spent on 325 personnel, looking after 300 odd horses, riding schools, a warhouse full of ceremonial kit, full-time-vets, four full-time farriers etc...
Oh, and a band.
All for ceremonial duty, mainly around central London.
Bin them too...??
Huge amount of money spent on 325 personnel, looking after 300 odd horses, riding schools, a warhouse full of ceremonial kit, full-time-vets, four full-time farriers etc...
Oh, and a band.
All for ceremonial duty, mainly around central London.
Bin them too...??
But the horses bring in hundreds of millions of dollars ....................
You should be able to do the ceremonial/PR stuff as well as the fighting. After all most of the time most of the Army isn't actually in a foxhole somewhere
You should be able to do the ceremonial/PR stuff as well as the fighting. After all most of the time most of the Army isn't actually in a foxhole somewhere
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I joined the military and now have zero interest in animals 😀
correlation doesn't equal causation
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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This argument, whilst perhaps true, does not justify keeping the Reds. There are so few airshows and displays that compared to 20 yrs ago a LOT less kids see the Reds perform.
In addition, if you were to survey most serving members of the RAF I would imagine that 99.5% did not join the RAF because of the Reds. I for one joined because a Chinook landed outside my Air Cadet Sqn (before I even understood that the air cadets existed). The Reds although great to watch holds no allure for this guy, even as a kid.
I would suggest that most young boys seeing a FJ with 'bombs' and 'guns' or a Helicopter fast roping or offloading 30 full tolled up soldiers has as much, if not more draw for your average little boy. That is certainly the vibe I get from all little boys I have met.
Just my opinion and not meant to cause nasty arguments or name calling.
In addition, if you were to survey most serving members of the RAF I would imagine that 99.5% did not join the RAF because of the Reds. I for one joined because a Chinook landed outside my Air Cadet Sqn (before I even understood that the air cadets existed). The Reds although great to watch holds no allure for this guy, even as a kid.
I would suggest that most young boys seeing a FJ with 'bombs' and 'guns' or a Helicopter fast roping or offloading 30 full tolled up soldiers has as much, if not more draw for your average little boy. That is certainly the vibe I get from all little boys I have met.
Just my opinion and not meant to cause nasty arguments or name calling.
I think the Reds are still valuable for engagement and recruitment. Some people don't consider joining without prior engagement to inspire the interest.
Back in the day , what inspired us were the 'Toom , the Lightning and yes , the Reds (Gnats in those days ) . Pre PC/ Health and Safety era . Wouldn't be allowed now ; all that nasty afterburner stuff is bad for the environment .....
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I would argue that the horses dont bring in much at all. I would be very surprised if there were more than a few dozen people who solely visit London to see the horses and soldiers. The overwhelming majority visit the UK or even London to see a plethora of attractions, the horses being 1 of literally hundreds of such attractions.
If you look a tthe PR for the UK when you are overseas you'd think there was little else other than the Brigade of Guards and the Household Regiment in the whole country - it's iconic stuff . Agreed not everyone comes to see them and once they have seen them they may not do it every time but it's key to the "brand"
For recruitment I think you would do much better (and far cheaper) by funding a Chinook (and crew) to constantly make school visits.
Imagine all the school kids lined up on the playing fields , Cab arrives and does a little demo - make it fun and show a few tac skills and a couple of bods abseiling out the back.
then land and out the back jumps the career guys signing everyone up!
Try and find a local lad in the aircrew so the kids can relate and imagine that could be me - he gives a bit of a speech to say so.
Perhaps the top science class can have a quick 5 minutes trip?
It would cost a fraction of the Reds and I'm sure would be more engaging for most.
Thoughts?
Google tells me there are 4000 secondary schools in the UK - so if there were 5 visits a day- that would be 1000 a year with 200 days on the job - kids would most likely see the aircraft during their education
Imagine all the school kids lined up on the playing fields , Cab arrives and does a little demo - make it fun and show a few tac skills and a couple of bods abseiling out the back.
then land and out the back jumps the career guys signing everyone up!
Try and find a local lad in the aircrew so the kids can relate and imagine that could be me - he gives a bit of a speech to say so.
Perhaps the top science class can have a quick 5 minutes trip?
It would cost a fraction of the Reds and I'm sure would be more engaging for most.
Thoughts?
Google tells me there are 4000 secondary schools in the UK - so if there were 5 visits a day- that would be 1000 a year with 200 days on the job - kids would most likely see the aircraft during their education
Last edited by typerated; 7th Dec 2019 at 18:39.
Can you image the HSE reaction!!!!
I bet you'll not find many inner city/urban areas that have retained their playing fields.
Chivenor Hunters and Yeovilton Sea Vixens always got my attention (and sometimes a rebuke) during lessons at school. But no-one looked twice at any helicopter, apart from an ancient Dragonfly which once made a surprise appearance over the town.
Yes, of course the Reds are still worth the effort. As are the Army's horses and HMS Victory!
But how could anyone advise a keen youngster that if they waited 7 years to get to a frontline jet and another 3 on their first tour, they might be lucky enough to be accepted for RAFAT?
Yes, of course the Reds are still worth the effort. As are the Army's horses and HMS Victory!
But how could anyone advise a keen youngster that if they waited 7 years to get to a frontline jet and another 3 on their first tour, they might be lucky enough to be accepted for RAFAT?
