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More Drone rumours

Old 14th May 2019, 09:54
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet View Post
BEagle



Which they have - the RPAS Flying Training pipeline, which is different just like the Fast Jet, Multi-Engine and Rotary Wing ones?
Ha ha ha! Describing it as merely different is like saying a car is different to a boat, or a model aircraft is different to a manned aeroplane.
Seeing as the RPAS FT course consists of c. 40 hours on the Tutor, the graduates were lucky even to get 'Blue' RAF wings. Maybe the UAS 'Budgie' would be more appropriate! (This is not meant in any way to denigrate the important job RPAS operators do though... It is as important as IntOs, Targeteers, Armourers. One team etc...)

https://www.raf.mod.uk/recruitment/r...tem-rpas-pilot:

SPECIALIST TRAINING
Your specialist training begins with a bespoke version of Elementary Flying Training (EFT), including ground school and then flying the Tutor aircraft. You will complete the Tutor training with an Instrument Flight Test and Final Handling Test before being awarded RPAS(P) wings. You will then go to the Reaper Formal Training Unit (FTU) in the USA to train on the aircraft you will be flying operationally.

The FTU is completed at Holloman Air Force Base, New Mexico, USA. You will spend 6 months completing the ground school elements and learning how to operate the aircraft, including weapons.


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Old 14th May 2019, 11:13
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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My thoughts...

FWIW I couldnít care less what badge the RPAS pilots wear. If it has been deemed appropriate for them to wear the RAF flying badge then so be it. As a current RAF pilot it doesnít offend me in the slightest.

Times have changed. I mean no offense to BEagle and Timelord but I donít think it matters what long-since retired pilots think. Reaper is a vital part of our current frontline inventory. The people who fly them are pilots.

Has anyone ever become annoyed that WW2 Spitfire Pilots got awarded the RAF flying badge after such a short training regime?

BV
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Old 14th May 2019, 18:14
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Me, a pilot? Now that is offensive!
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Old 15th May 2019, 07:56
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Reaper is a vital part of our current frontline inventory. The people who fly them are pilots.

Has anyone ever become annoyed that WW2 Spitfire Pilots got awarded the RAF flying badge after such a short training regime?

BV
Bob, I hear what you say, Reaper is indeed vital. So is SHORAD. Does that mean that when the RAF Regt 'flew' Rapier, all the Rapier crews and Rock QWIs should have received wings (and not just on their right shoulder!)? If not, why not? After all, Rapier flew, was operated by a man on the ground and achieved kinetic effects. Perfect parallel if you ask me... Maybe all the current Royal Artillery SHORAD guys should get wings?

And WW2 Spitfire pilots still flew in the ruddy thing and many lost their lives doing so...regardless of how long spent on an OTU. Poor comparison!
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Old 15th May 2019, 08:33
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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TR

The regiment guys never had to land a Rapier!

I take your point about the Spitfire thing. However, as things stand not all pilots complete the same course to get their wings anyway. I donít see that this is any different. Itís certainly not going to twist my knickers.

BV

Last edited by Bob Viking; 15th May 2019 at 09:05.
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Old 15th May 2019, 14:36
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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I get that wings have always been awarded at the end of a given course of flying training, but surely their continued wearing depends on continuing flying, at least for one tour. To my dinosaur navís brain, flying means being in the air. But hey ho, words can mean what you want them to mean (1984, I think, or was it Alice through the looking glass?)

BV, I know that my opinion doesnít MATTER, but debate on here would be pretty thin if it was restricted to those whose opinion DOES matter!

Best regards to all wearing the uniform, whatever badges they have

TL

Last edited by Timelord; 16th May 2019 at 17:17.
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Old 15th May 2019, 16:43
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Good grief Bob V.

When I knew you I had no idea that you wore womens' underwear !
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Old 15th May 2019, 16:47
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Ah, but only of the finest silk I understand.
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Old 15th May 2019, 17:30
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Dook and DOF

Only the best, naturally.

Timelord, youíre right. Healthy debate is a good thing. But I am right and you are wrong.

BV

😉🤣
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Old 15th May 2019, 17:52
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post

Timelord, youíre right. Healthy debate is a good thing. But I am right and you are wrong.

BV

😉🤣
Exactly. I can remember a few debriefs along those lines.
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Old 15th May 2019, 21:40
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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BV - well said!
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Old 21st May 2019, 03:31
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Timelord View Post
Well, like many on here I admit to being from a previous generation: but proper pilotís wings, for an RPAS pilot. Really? I do not doubt their skill, the length of their training or the stresses their particular job entails, but when all is said and done they conduct their business safe and sound in an ISO container at a friendly base which is not what the emblem represents.
The wings are for being qualified as a pilot of a military aircraft. Have you been to Waddo and actually seen what the guys do?
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Old 21st May 2019, 13:51
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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No. But I saw Mike Brewer do it on the telly... If that fat knacker can manage it.....
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Old 21st May 2019, 14:57
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fluffy Bunny View Post
No. But I saw Mike Brewer do it on the telly... If that fat knacker can manage it.....
Flying is not hard.... A monkey got itself into space
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Old 21st May 2019, 15:17
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by heights good View Post
The wings are for being qualified as an Remote Operator of a military aircraft. Have you been to Waddo and actually seen what the guys do?
Fixed that for you!
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Old 21st May 2019, 16:03
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Training Risky View Post
Fixed that for you!
​​​​​​

It's quite telling that it seems to be the old and retired folk that are most averse to RPAS pilots being recognised as such. If you have not been to Waddo and seen exactly what the Reaper crews do then you are commenting from a position of conjecture and opinions based on at best mistruths, rumour or deep bias.

Actual hands on flying of an aircraft is not what pilots are employed for in the military, otherwise The RAF would employ your average Easyjet level pilot.

Military pilots have to 'fight' an aircraft by managing complicated systems, multiple crew, numerous radios, understand a complicated and, most of the time, incomplete and confusing tactical picture whilst staying within the every moving goalposts of ATC, LOAC, ROE, TD, GASOs, and 20 other documents and policies. All whilst being shot at, trying to understand foreign aircrew and procedures, coordinating several other assets, dealing with an emergency in marginal weather and immense pressure to ensure the goods guys dont die.... THAT is why the military has a different calibre of pilot.

now try making all of those decisions with 500 other people in the CAOC, DGCS MoD etc from SAC to 4* rank analysing EVERY decision before phoning directly into the cockpit to tell about how your decision as the aircraft captain is not what THEY want! That is exactly what RPAS ops are for young kids who are 18-24 months along the line from day 1 at IOT.

By the time your average FJ mate is day CR after 7-10 yrs and JUST starting to be productive your RPAS pilot has 3 - 4000 OPERATIONAL hours, has dropped OPERATIONAL ordnance, has a huge wealth of ISR knowledge, operational planning experience, intimate knowledge of how a war is fought at the tactical to strategic level.

Times have moved on, your opinions, based on FACTS, should probably consider do the same if you dont want to look like you are out of touch.

If it's good enough for the adults in charge at the Air Force Board, perhaps we should trust them a little more, no?

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Old 21st May 2019, 18:33
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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I agree. So long as you mean that RPAS operators donít get shot at and marginal weather never puts their safety at risk.

Very impressed with the set up at Waddo. Amazing capability.

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Old 21st May 2019, 18:35
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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HG,

Thank you for explaining all that, I had no idea!

As for” trusting the Air Force Board “no”...,er No.
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Old 21st May 2019, 18:42
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by orca View Post
I agree. So long as you mean that RPAS operators donít get shot at and marginal weather never puts their safety at risk.

Very impressed with the set up at Waddo. Amazing capability.

Absolutely. I was meaning military pilots in general, not specifically RPAS.
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Old 21st May 2019, 18:46
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Timelord View Post
HG,

Thank you for explaining all that, I had no idea!

As for” trusting the Air Force Board “no”...,er No.
I think you have hit the nail on the head, most people have no idea and revert back to what they know as their barometer. I would encourage everyone who has not done so, to approach the Waddo about a visit, if it is within your remit to do so. It is a HUGE eye-opener; warfare and conventional thinking has evolved significantly.

RPAS is a COMPLETELY different mindset and skill set which has some really young kids with little experience making some pretty strategic decisions, albeit with plenty of support from the Sqn and additional 'support' from the 500 other long screwdrivers
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